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i have no words. for her. her comments. or the notoriety that this is getting.
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@Mrs. Pen: Thank you for posting that link. It always surprises me how many people believe themselves well educated on the vaccination topics but still believe 50-years-outdated data. Alarming stuff. Always nice to see someone post the truth!
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Having been involved very closely with autistic adults and families of autistic children, I know people who have very strong opinions on both sides of this issue. And knowing that there's a good chance my LO could have seizures like me, we've given some thought to selective vaccination or being very careful about breaking up vaccinations. But I can share what finally scared me into deciding it's worth it to stick to the schedule.
At a neuro appointment, I was accidentally given paperwork for another patient - a young woman dying of encephalitis resulting from childhood measles. Although I don't want to risk a vaccination reaction, it couldn't be as bad as what I now know the risks from not vaccinating are. If someone had told me that this was a hypothetical risk I might have thought "yeah, okay...of course bad things happen when you get measles" but seeing it firsthand was what convinced me.
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@JoyfulKiwi: I agree with you completely. She made it very clear that the reason she chose not to vaccinate is because she believes it may cause autism. That belief is 100% false. To believe something that is proven to be false is absolutely foolish. And honestly I could care less that she was "caught off guard"... every mother in this country knows what a hot button topic vaccines are, and as a celebrity she's well aware that people pay attention to what she says and does. Just by giving any sort of opinion she's taking a platform on this issue. Spreading false information on something as important as the safety of our children is extremely irresponsible in my opinion.
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I just went to her Facebook page...it is a shit show. But very entertaining. She actually has a ton of support. I had no idea there were so many anti-vaxers out there!
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@coopsmama: Access to clean water, food, and healthcare did not eradicate diseases (and provide herd immunity) in the U.S. . . . vaccinations did.
With regard to your request to not receive *input* about your decision not to vax . . . that your *research* failed to alert you to the facts regarding the use of fetal tissue is all I need to know to determine just how thoroughly you vetted your decision. ETA: And while that may sound harsh, we're talking about lives here . . . lives! Your burden could not be higher given what's at stake.
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I didn't even know she had a child, I think it's time for me to renew my subscription to the news...aka US Weekly.
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I keep hearing about the study that said anti-vaxers are even more stubborn after reading scientific information--, so I looked it up (and then wanted to read a summary rather than the actual study). This is disheartening.
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@MsLipGloss: I did not state anywhere in my posts that those things eradicated the childhood diseases. My point was simply, in a normal healthy body with access to those things, the body will fight off the disease and it will run its course and one will have natural immunity (a TRUE immunization to the disease) to the disease which will actually provide long term herd immunity in a population. I was simply saying in response to that poster that I would much rather my children develop natural immunity to a disease like measles rather than be vaccinated for it -- and as I'm sure you know, vaccinations can and do wear off and for some individuals, simply never take effect! It's unfortunate but true. Again, in the US and developed countries, a disease like measles was simply not a problem for a vast majority of the population to beat.
I would also like to point out that the CDC states that measles was eliminated in the US in 2000. There were 86 cases of measles in the US in 2000, and then in 2013 the CDC declared we had an outbreak when there were 189 cases in the US. So 103 new cases and we've gone from eradication to outbreak? What?!
In regards to the fetal tissue, I will be honest and say that the ingredients in the vaccines have never been my primary area of research or concern. I am far more interested in long term immunity and natural disease prevention. Further, I never declared myself an expert and if you read all my posts in this thread, you would see that I don't claim to be a perfect parent or make perfect parenting choices -- but I'm doing the best I can. I would venture a guess and say that's where we're all at in this crazy parenting world -- even you.
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@coopsmama: outbreak is a term used when the number of cases occurring in a particular place/time is greater than expected. You can have an outbreak of two cases.
So, without knowing much else about it, I would venture to guess that "outbreak" is being used because of the large number of cases in specific geographical areas. "Eradicated" was likely previously used because they were spread out and isolated cases.
It's really not a big conspiracy.All I can say is that I can't wait until my daughter is old enough for the MMR.
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@Boogs: @Mrs. Pen: I truly believe that she is an idiot, for a multitude of reasons, this is just teh latest one to come to light. I have seen her twitter feed and all the ridiculous links she is posting to 1.5 million people as a way of backing up her uninformed position. IMO, she is an idiot. Not all anti-vaxxers just Kristin Cavallari and I have arrived at that conclusion based on her public persona and the information she has chosen to publicly convey. I feel quite comfortable with my position.
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@plantains: You say you're not calling anyone here an idiot, but you indirectly may be if there's someone who shares her viewpoints. As a result, they may now be intimidated to speak up and that's unfortunate that it might stifle the ability to have a healthy debate. That's all I'm trying to say. And I'm pro-vax, but it's still nice to be informed about both sides.
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@coopsmama: Your children can't develop a natural immunity to what they are not exposed to . . . It is obvious (logical) gaps like this (and others!) in your described thought process that invites *input.*
To that end, your other comments invite *input,* and I will refrain from providing same (as requested), although I will again state that we're talking about LIVES, and that can't be emphasized strongly enough!
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@coopsmama: I do applaud you for having the balls to comment on a HB vax thread, but it's a losing battle. Sad but SO true.
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My mother chose not to vaccinate her children before the internet, before Jenny McCarthy, before Autism was even something that people thought about. There have been people questioning vaccines for longer than any of this.
As someone who has been selective about what vaccines I give my child, I can also tell you that it has nothing to do with any of the above stated reasons. For me, I find it strange that many people won't even feed their children anything that is not organically grown and don't take Tylenol when pregnant but will inject their tiny babies with things that they aren't sure about. That is the part that I always found strange. That for questioning what you put into your child's body on a medical level you are judged outright but questioning what you put into your child's body when food and drink are concerned it is ok?
I don't know. I usually stay away from these threads because I know that my opinion is not the norm and is just that, my opinion.
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@bpcmarj: Boom
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@bpcmarj: +1!
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Forget it.
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@bpcmarj: +1
I HATE this topic every single time it comes up on HB. There are so many people with misinformation on both sides. What's best is to let people make decisions for their own kids and please no one reply to this post with anything about herd immunity. I get that you all believe you need herd immunity.
There are a million posts every day on this site about the dangers in giving your kid a plastic cup for instance, but shooting them full of those chemicals, is the perfect thing to do *sarcasm*
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@bpcmarj: @MrsMcD: @allison: (approaches cautiously) I think cause what your child eats doesn't affect the health of other kids, but vaccinations (or not vaccinating) can.
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@junebugmama: you know I like you (seriously! I don't like getting involved in arguments on hb) but you can't really tell people how to reply to a topic..especially when herd immunity does come into play.
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@sorrycharlie: I think it doesn't. Obviously, me asking for people to not reply won't stop them anyway
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@Silva: I agree with you: my choice to not vaccinate my child is absolutely selfish!
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@allison: sorry to delete my comment- I just don't want to do this today
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@lawbee11: that tweet is awesome!
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@Silva: It's all good. My comment still stands. I'm over the debate, too.
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@allison: Wait, it's sad that she won't be able to convince others on HB to choose not to vaccinate their children? That's all I can assume you mean by a "losing battle".
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@MamaMoose: No, just sad that there isn't more respect.
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@Boogs: Like I said, I think she is an idiot in general. I read TMZ and watch reality TV, my opinion on her was formed a long time ago and like I said is limited to her. I am not calling non-vaxxers idiots, I'm calling her an idiot. We have non-vaxxing threads on HB all the time and I often participate and hear some very interesting perspectives. I'm yet to call anyone an idiot.
If anyone is afraid to participate in the discussion because of my opinion on Kristin Cavallari then I am not sure how much debating they are up for.
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@allison: I think some people are more aggressive than necessary on these threads, absolutely. But at the same time, you have to understand that it can be difficult to respect someone who is making a decision that could possibly affect the health and safety of other people, and backing that decision up by spreading incorrect information.
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@sorrycharlie: That's a good point, and I can understand that.
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@plantains: You formed an opinion because of what you read on a reputable site like TMZ and what you've seen on "reality" shows? I'm sorry, but I don't know if a statement like that helps your case, lol, I think even you can see the irony in that.
Anyway, I don't want to be in unnecessary internet fights and I don't want to threadjack, so I'll be stepping away from this thread.
@allison: I'm sad, too.
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To all the anti-vaccination parents: what do you think would happen if we all took your lead and stopped vaccinating our kids?
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@Boogs: TMZ hasn't been wrong about her so far...Anyway, I don't want to threadjack anymore so we will say that I reserve the right to call a celebrity an idiot based on her public persona if I choose to. Kristin is a reality TV star, so I see no issue with judging her on what I see of her on reality TV.
Anyway, I am not making a case, I am stating that I think she is an idiot. I feel comfortable with that and I am not talking about you or any other non-vaxxers on this site, I am talking about Kristin.
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My cousin's baby had a heart transplant as a newborn. Due to her medication, she's unable to receive any live vaccines. Unfortunately, her body is not strong enough to fight a disease such as measles if she is exposed. There is a high likelihood she will die if she contracts such a disease. My cousin would give anything to be able to vaccinate her child and is rightfully terrified by this anti-vax trend. I understand being concerned about what's in vaccines and perhaps changes are needed, but the possible outcome of refusing to vaccinate is far worse. Could you live with yourself if your child spread a disease to another child who then died from it?
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@spaniellove: "If someone had told me that this was a hypothetical risk I might have thought "yeah, okay...of course bad things happen when you get measles" but seeing it firsthand was what convinced me."
I think you're really hitting the nail on the head right there. It's easy for parents these days to say that measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. aren't that big a deal because they've been nearly eradicated -- thanks to vaccines -- and in recent memory, we've had little direct exposure to the illnesses and their effects. That's obviously a wonderful thing vaccines have given us, to not have to experience these illnesses over the last couple of generations, but the downside is that people can bury their heads in the sand and say they aren't all that scary. My grandmother has talked about babysitting for an infant who had whooping cough when she was a teenager, and at 88 years old, the memory still terrifies her.
ETA: also, if your kids are in good health and have a nutritious diet, they may be less likely to suffer complications from something like the measles than people in developing countries (though nothing is guaranteed). But what about immunocompromised people who can't be vaccinated and are far more likely to suffer lasting effects or even die from the measles? I suppose it depends on your opinion of our social obligations to things like herd immunity but IMO if you want to be a part of mainstream society, you have a responsibility to contribute as you can to the public health of our society.
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I am just seeing this for the first time. I honestly respect everyone's choice to vaccinate or not when they've done their research and decided what is best for their family.
I think the problem is that, if she did do her research, she certainly didn't sound like it. The interview just seemed very scattered and maybe she was caught off guard, who knows?
I just have to hope people wouldn't leave a decision like this to a celebrity.
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Who needs science when you've got links to modernalternativemama.com?
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@lawbee11: I mean, that's basically the same thing as an MD.
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@lawbee11: omg. That "evidence" made my head explode. It specifically says 2 /1000 would die of the measles and 7/1 million die of vaccines. And that's supposed to SUPPORT not vaccinating? Wtf???? DO MATH, people, which sounds better, 2 out of 1000 dying or 7 out of one million? I just can't.
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