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The Disney alligator story =(

  1. cnidaria

    cherry / 128 posts

    As someone from a place that doesn't have anything worse than the occasional snapping turtle in bodies of water, I would have interpreted a "No swimming" sign as meaning that the area had strong currents or sharp rocks or something. It wouldn't even occur to me that it actually meant not to go near the water at all, ESPECIALLY given the setup of that beach area. Disney ought to know that a large percentage of their guests wouldn't just intrinsically know about the potential for alligators!

  2. T.H.O.U.

    wonderful clementine / 24134 posts

    @Maysprout: I agree they could probably up their signage. But do they have to have a sign for every possible danger? Florida is known for poisonous snakes. Water moccasins love shallow water like that and can also come on shore. Florida is the lightening capital of the world, do they need a sign that says you are at risk of lightening strike if you stand on the beach? I just view these things as really really sad freak of nature accidents. But to go sue happy over it and try to place blame and place fault doesn't really solve anything.

  3. PinkElephant

    grapefruit / 4584 posts

    @Jennibenni: "staged" is a really good choice of words. While I don't think its necessarily the resort's fault, and I like to think I would have obeyed no swimming signs, I can absolutely see how someone felt safe wading there (not from FL, clearly!)

    When I lived in Japan, in one of the tiny ski towns famous for the snow monkeys who come to bathe in the hot springs, hotels distributed/displayed information, in many languages, about why you shouldn't go hop into just any hot spring (the baboons see it as their territory) and the importance of not just shutting but locking your windows (monkeys know there is good stuff in your luggage!) I thought this was helpful information for people who might not know better. Hindsight is always 20/20, I know, but I guess in this case, more specific signage might end up being needed. It's so sad!

  4. hellobeeboston

    honeydew / 7235 posts

    i can't even think about this - how terribly tragic.

  5. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    @T.H.O.U.: I agree to an extent about freak accidents and there are certain risks people take everyday but people all over the world know about lightening. When I go to national parks there's usually info and signs about local animals and to beware.

  6. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Maysprout: I agree. It never would've occurred to me that the "no swimming" sign was because of alligators! Especially at a resort with the beach like that! They definitely needed more specific warnings. So heartbreaking this had to happen for me to become more educated about alligators in Florida.

  7. MrsBrewer

    coconut / 8854 posts

    Like others, living in WI, I NEVER would have thought the "No Swimming" sign meant not to go in there because of alligators. I know that there are alligators in FL, but I never would have thought it would have been a threat like that truthfully. I feel for the family, and I really think it is Disney's fault for poor signage.

  8. Charm54

    cantaloupe / 6885 posts

    I just read a family from the UK reported a similar incident a few weeks ago at Disney. They were getting ready to watch the fireworks with their children playing on the beach, and an alligator chased them off. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/terrified-brit-family-chased-alligator-8197003

    Wtf?! I agree this is a freak tragic accident , but considering people come from all over the world and such different backgrounds - signage and education really need to be upped. I consider myself a somewhat savvy traveler and like I said, I've been to Disney more times than I can count - but this has NEVER been on my radar

  9. MrsRcCar

    grapefruit / 4712 posts

    Does no one do research on an area before traveling? I am not in the camp of pushing blame on either party in this case. All along the coast gators are an issue in populated areas. I realize Orlando isn't on the coast so to speak but Florida is very coastal. I think the bigger issue is when people are on vacation to a resort (Disney and many others) people feel like nothing bad could possibly happen to their group.

    This being said I think it wouldn't hurt for Disney to put up posting about local wildlife could be present.

  10. Foodnerd81

    wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

    @MrsRcCar: I feel like Disney if all places I wouldn't feel like I had to do research. It's not like they were going on safari, they stayed at a Disney resort. And yes they had the signs, but I agree with the others that the signs should be much more explicit, especially when the beach is set up like that. You have to assume most people staying there are not from the area and familiar with the dangers.

    Not saying they should sue, and I'm sure Disney will be upping their signs now.

  11. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    It doesn't really matter why you think it says no swimming. Disney shouldn't have to spell out every possible danger. It said no swimming, end of story. If you choose to swim, you've decided that you know better than Disney and you're special and the rules don't apply to you. Regardless of not being from an area where gators are native you would never find me or my family wading in a lake at 9pm! And certainly not one with no swimming signs. I feel awful for the parents, and I'm sure they never imagined this as a possibility, but that doesn't make this Disney's fault. The suggestion to sue them is crazy to me. I'm sure they will, and I'm sure Disney will settle to avoid media focus. But it's still crazy.

  12. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Truth Bombs: Wow, your post is incredibly harsh. I completely disagree with you. From what I understand, their child was just wading in the water, NOT swimming. They didn't read the "no swimming" sign and go "Oh no, we're special, we can swim!" Wading ISN'T swimming and your implication that it is and the parents should've known better is offensive.

  13. PawPrints

    pomegranate / 3658 posts

    It's such a fascinating social phenomenon that people jump to blame anybody who would go to court after a tragedy like this. Like there's this perception that filing a lawsuit for damages is some horrible thing to do or in some way shows irresponsibility. Disney is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet; engaging in a lawsuit over a death on their resort would be a perfectly normal thing for them to participate in, would not make even a tiny dent in their enormous profits, and the settlement could go a long way toward helping this poor family with funeral expenses and their suffering. Whether it's Disney's "fault" would be up to the attorneys to argue and the judge to decide. It would be an entirely appropriate use of the legal system. It's so strange that anybody would get upset about that.

  14. ShootingStar

    coconut / 8472 posts

    @MrsRcCar: I've been to FL a million times since I was a kid. My parents parents own a place in St. Pete that I go to frequently. The place they live borders a nature preserve that's frequented by alligators. I'm used to seeing them all over, like in the fountain next to the pool (but never in the pool itself thanks to fencing). And I know that they tend to get with 10-15 feet of my parents' building. Whenever we're driving out the complex we check embankment along the water there to see if the gators are hanging out. Because of the prevalence in that area I'm very familiar with the warning signage for alligators. I'm also used to seeing gators on the side of the road, and in all sorts of random places, like the pond outside the library.

    *BUT* with all that said - I never would have imagined that place set up like a beach, with signs that only say "no swimming", at freaking DISNEY, would have alligators in the water. Just like Disney is hyper vigilant about cleaning up and making things pristine for the next morning, I would have expected them to be just as vigilant about alligators, especially in an area staged like a beach.

  15. snowjewelz

    wonderful kiwi / 23653 posts

    @Charm54: Wow, I'm assuming they reported it?! If so obviously no extra precautions were taken!

  16. HLK208

    pineapple / 12234 posts

    Absolutely horrible

    That poor family...

  17. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @Adira: You're welcome to disagree with me. If I see a sign that says "no swimming" I don't go in the water. At all. Because that's what that sign is intended to mean. My post was in response to so many people saying "I would have never expected Alligators to be the reason it says 'no swimming'". I'm just stating that regardless of what the reason was, the sign said no swimming and the family decided to enter the water anyway. Does that mean they 'deserved' to have this happen to their child? OF COURSE NOT. I'm heart broken for them, and can't imagine what they must be going though. But to hold Disney responsible for what amounts to a terrible accident is just not appropriate to me.

  18. pwnstar

    pear / 1718 posts

    @T.H.O.U.: @Truth Bombs: Agree.

  19. looch

    wonderful pear / 26210 posts

    @MrsRcCar: Let me put it this way, yes, I do research, but at a place like Disney, where everything is staged, I would have expected there to be a sign about wildlife if that was the concern, not about not swimming in the water.

    An alligator could come right up on the sand and in a second, have my leg in their mouth. I don't need to be in the water for that to happen. If that's the true risk, then the signage should reflect that.

  20. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Truth Bombs: Perhaps you are more educated on what "no swimming" signs truly mean. I've been Googling it to try to figure out what it REALLY means, and have yet to come up with anything conclusive. "No Swimming" to me means simply that - don't go swimming. Maybe because the water is harmful to ingest. Maybe because there's a strong current. Maybe because there are sharp rocks. But whatever the reason, it would not have occurred to ME that "No Swimming" meant "Don't even STEP into the water." And to insinuate that I should have somehow known the "real" message behind "No Swimming" is offensive to me.

  21. MrsRcCar

    grapefruit / 4712 posts

    @Foodnerd81: That thought process is why bad things happen at places like Disney. They are great at providing as safe as an environment as they can but there is risk traveling anywhere. It always important to be aware of your surroundings and not assume that everything will totally safe all the time. I have seen the no swimming signs that are posted, I always assumed that it had to do with wildlife in the area.
    @Adira: While I agree that wading is not swimming it is still entering the water when it's clearly posted not to enter the water. If they weren't clear on the reasons for no swimming they should have asked or researched.

    @PawPrints: So just because Disney is a wealthy company they should assume financial responsibility for this tragic accident? I am sure they will end up being financially responsible but I don't think it's right. They can't keep everyone safe especially if people ignore the signage.

  22. MrsSCB

    pomelo / 5257 posts

    @T.H.O.U.: agreed. I may not have thought of snakes or alligators being there, but "no swimming" to me means don't touch the water. I'd probably at least assume there's bacteria or something else nasty in there and would stay away. "No swimming" doesn't mean "but wading is OK." This is a terribly tragic incident, but I don't think Disney is at fault and should be sued.

  23. Charm54

    cantaloupe / 6885 posts

    @snowjewelz: The article said the incident was reported to hotel security ... clearly not enough was done

  24. looch

    wonderful pear / 26210 posts

    @MrsSCB: But why leave it open to interpretation? If the risk is alligators, why not just say that? Why say no swimming, when an alligator could come right up on the sand and snatch me?

  25. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @MrsRcCar: I disagree about there being "clearly posted not to enter the water." "No swimming" does not mean "don't enter the water." Unless it does and I've just never been educated on this particular phrase's true meaning???? I'm saying, to ME, it never would have occurred to me that that's what "no swimming" means. As I'm sure it didn't occur to this family and many of the families on this thread saying it wouldn't have occurred to them.

  26. ShootingStar

    coconut / 8472 posts

    @Truth Bombs: But the things with alligators, is that you shouldn't even be as close to them as that beach allows. I really think the signage and the set up were just asking for a disaster to happen. Yes, they shouldn't have gone in the water. But disney absolutely did not do enough to express the danger.

    I attached a pic below of my parents' neighborhood. The gators really like swimming in the bigger body of water (but not the small one for whatever weird reason) and they're constantly hanging out on the bank. There are signs at both ends of the bank very clearly saying to stay off it due to alligators. This is what I'm used to seeing, so a sign just saying "no swimming" seems incredibly insufficient to me.



  27. snowjewelz

    wonderful kiwi / 23653 posts

    I don't know how much whether no swimming means don't swim or don't step into the water even matters; alligators can clearly come onto land as well so honestly, you're at risk if you're standing close to the water even. I mean, those UK people only got away b/c they were not right at the water line and they all saw it and ran together. It was dark when the toddler was there so I doubt anyone could've really seen it coming and the toddler would not have known to gun for it.

  28. sunny

    coconut / 8430 posts

    So tragic.

    I agree that if the danger is alligators I would have expected better signage or a fence of some sort.

  29. Charm54

    cantaloupe / 6885 posts

    @looch: I agree...if the danger is alligators and not just nasty bacteria water, they need to be really explicit. Kids go near the water for a lot of reasons: to get water for their sandcastles, skip rocks, watch the boats, etc. They aren't swimming, or even "wading", yet are still vulnerable at the shore's edge.

  30. MrsRcCar

    grapefruit / 4712 posts

    @looch: Disney is great a lot of things. However it's important to always remain aware of your surroundings and not assume that anywhere has every little detail fixed up. That's like assuming the Disney resort on Oahu is exempt from all the natural to Hawaii creatures like sharks and other sea life that can cause harm.

  31. pwnstar

    pear / 1718 posts

    @MrsSCB: And to that end, to assume that the family would have heeded any other sign lacks a basis in fact; they ignored the signs that were already posted.

  32. FaithFertility

    eggplant / 11861 posts

    @cnidaria: That is what my mind went to! Many wouldn't think alligators!!!

  33. sunny

    coconut / 8430 posts

    @Adira: I agree with your interpretation. I would have thought that the reason behind the sign was probably one of the following:
    -no swimming because you'll be a nuisance to other guests
    -no swimming because the water is polluted
    -no swimming because there is a strong current

    If there was a danger for alligators to come up on the beach I would have expected signage to say stay off the beach and stay away from the water.

  34. looch

    wonderful pear / 26210 posts

    @MrsRcCar: Which is why the signage needs to be specific to the threat. Disney has visitors from around the world, and you kind of have to dumb these things down to the lowest common denominator though, which is at least to me assuming that people don't research.

  35. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @sunny: Exactly!! It wasn't even safe to be NEAR the water and there was NOOOOOOO indication of that.

  36. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @Adira: Doesn't your response exactly prove my point? If you don't know what it is that makes the water unsafe to swim in, it doesn't seem like a very smart decision to allow your child to play in the water at 9pm at night.

    I'm sorry if you find my opinion offensive. Based on your responses here and in the gorilla thread I think we'll probably just have to agree to disagree. I'm more of a believer that parents need to take responsibility for the actions of themselves and their children, and not look to immediately pass the blame when something bad happens. Again, I'm not saying this family deserves this or ever expected that their child would get attacked by an alligator. Nor do I think the woman at the zoo expected that her child would actually run off and climb into the gorilla enclosure. But that doesn't mean it's Disney's fault or the zoo's fault.

  37. SaltySea

    pea / 9 posts

    I agree that doing some research before hand might have provided some insight about alligators and their possible whereabouts but how many people think to research wildlife when planning a vacation at a Disney resort?

    The lack of alligator signs is insane to me. I live in the Los Angeles area and just about everywhere that presents any potential threat of wildlife has signs stating so from hiking in Malibu to pumpkin patches in Irvine. I can't count how many times I've seen mountain lion or rattlesnake signs. In many years of visiting said places I've only seen a rattlesnake once and never a mountain lion but the signs still make me hyper vigilant.

    I can't imagine somewhere like Florida where alligators are quite common not having signage alerting visitors to the possible danger. Seems pretty irresponsible of Disney and probably gives visitors a false sense of security.

  38. MrsSCB

    pomelo / 5257 posts

    @looch: I don't have any problem with Disney adding signs about alligators, but if they say stay out of the water, I don't think they're required to list every possible danger in there. Do they need to erect several paragraph signs saying, "no swimming and that means no wading, don't even touch the water. There may be bacteria, snakes, alligators, etc." I also read that the main reason they have no swimming signs is, indeed, because of contaminated water, so perhaps this is a freak accident. I don't know any details of how many alligators are present in this body of water typically, but regardless, Disney said stay out of the water.

  39. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Truth Bombs: My responses make it clear (or, I would've THOUGHT they made it clear) that it never would have OCCURRED to me that "no swimming" meant there could be some sort of danger just from wading or playing at the edge of the water. It wouldn't have occurred to me to go ask "Hey, why are there no swimming signs? Can I still wade in the water?" The sign just doesn't give enough indication that there is MORE TO IT than "swimming". "No swimming" means simple "no swimming." NOT "Don't wade, don't come near me, there's dangerous animals that might be here!"

  40. Happygal

    pomelo / 5000 posts

    9 pm in Florida during the summer time doesn't seem crazy late to me to allow your child to be up and out in water. A picture of an animal below "no swimming" sign seems like a no-brainer to me if that's the concern.

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