Hellobee Boards

@Happygal: 9 p.m. is just dark, and I bet they have tons of lights

@MrsSCB: But if the risk is alligators, that can happen on the sand, right?

If I saw a sign to beware of alligators, I wouldn't even go on the beach, in truth. If it said no swimming, if my son asked to go to the shore splash around or fill his bucket for his castle building project, I probably would have said that's fine. Would I sue Disney if that happened to my son? I really have no idea, but I wouldn't rule it out completely. Does this make me a terrible person, lol?

To me, it's omission of information that is the problem, how can you make a good decision if you don't have all the info?

@MrsRcCar: one of the beaches we go to puts up signs for riptides. To me that's amuch different warning than no swimming since riptids can easily sweep a kid out even just ankle deep.
Him being ankle deep doesnt mean this wouldn't have happened on shore.

To my mind, one of the reasons that a lawsuit would be totally appropriate here is that Disney has a responsibility to protect their guests reasonably well, which they have failed to do.

Why is there a beach setup if you're not meant to go into the water?
Why didn't the signs say "DANGER: aggressive animals"?

The reason is that Disney would lose money and customers if those truthful signs were there. So they didn't place them, and a little boy has died and a family is bereft.

The sign should have read "Do Not Enter". So very tragic.

@Maysprout: From my understanding he was a foot out. He may not have been swimming and the water wasn't too deep. However, that's much more then wading.

Think about this outside of the Disney context. Do you (as in everyone) read every sign in great detail about the potential dangers? Millions of people hit the beaches in Hawaii for example without thinking about getting bitten by a shark, bitten by a sea turtle, being stung by a number of under water creatures or falling off the reef and dying. This dangers don't even include being swept out by the current. People commonly feel too safe on vacation because a lot of mentality is nothing bad will happen to them.

This story is heartbreaking. I'm with those who think it was gross negligence of Disney not to warn visitors that there was a potential risk from alligators. We lived in the tropics of Australia for a while, where saltwater crocodiles are the norm, and signs were posted absolutely everywhere warning of the danger in the water, at the water's edge, and even a ways inland where people might otherwise think they're safe. Even with this experience, it never would have occurred to me in this situation, at a man made beach, at a family friendly resort, that there was a risk of attack from an alligator! A man made beach on a resort suggests to me some level of safety. Whilst there may have been no swimming signs, I think there was an obligation to explain that wildlife may be present in the area, both in the water and at the water's edge, that could prove harmful or fatal to humans.

This is just a tragedy all around and whilst no amount of damages could ever fully heal this family, I wouldn't be disgusted if the family sued, if for no other reason than to ensure proper safety precautions are taken to prevent a tragedy of this kind from ever happening again.

I get that the focus of a lot of this conversation is on the signage, but I don't believe any type of signage would've been appropriate or absolved Disney of the responsibility to keep the area safe (and free from alligators) which (obviously) can walk on land as well as swim in water. The duty to warn isn't a substitute for the duty to keep an area safe. Particularly an area clearly designed for children. Maybe the family should've been more careful, but clearly Disney should have been. If I was the family, I would sue and their level of care will be weighed against Disney's.

@MrsRcCar: Actually, being a foot of water would definitely fall under the definition of "wading" which is just "to walk in water, when partially immersed."

And I know that when I go to a location, I DO read the signs posted. Our beach has a very detailed sign and includes not being able to use floaties in the water, which never would have occurred to me before reading the sign. "No swimming" is simply not detailed enough or explicit enough about the dangers in this location.

@Maysprout: Since the incident? Because, again, did they know about this before it happened? Do they typically trawl the waters looking for gators? Should they have? There are just so many questions, and I'm definitely not saying I know the correct answers either. I just don't think it's as easy as, "Disney KNEW about this! They were grossly negligent! They should be sued!" They said stay out of the water. Perhaps, as far as they understood, staying out of the water was sufficient for safety.

@elephantor: well, it's interesting you bring up the zoo, because my opinion is the same for both. Sometimes terrible things happen. Sometimes it's not a simple task to assign blame. Sometimes it's not really anyone's fault. I think it's natural to want to find someone or a company to point fingers at. But I don't know that it's always fair or productive.

Just to add a different perspective on this - I worked with Disney for years in a previous life and knowing what I know about their dedication to customer service and the Disney experience (it's almost cultish, honestly), I'd be shocked if they aren't completely distraught over this and already reaching out to the family to offer some kind of compensation, not that anything will bring the child back. I am very much on the side of this being a freak accident and something they likely didn't anticipate and thought they'd have to worry about, and that's likely what's going to make it really easy for them to respond positively to this (whether they get sued or do something proactively). They think of everything, and this has got to be really devastating for them.

@MrsRcCar: I can definitely appreciate that. My comment was more intended to say that I think the focus on the signage is kind of beside the point.

I'm so, so sad about this story. We are annual pass holders and cross this lake on the ferry to Magic Kingdom probably once every other month. I can't really imagine going over that water again now...

@mrsjd: To be fair to Disney, we live about an hour away on the east coast of Florida, and there are alligators in seriously every small pond/lake/river here. Man made, natural, doesn't matter. They are in the beautiful lakes next to the schools and libraries, next to restaurants, on every golf course. It would be impossible for Disney to eradicate alligators in the water on their property. From what I understand, they do remove them when they are over 6 ft (same policy in my neighborhood, probably a policy throughout Florida through the state wildlife agency).

They should change their signage for sure so that non-Floridians explicitly understand the risk you are taking being next to any water in this state. But this is a tragic freak accident, and I don't think they should close the beaches over it. Families should be free to decide if the risk is one they are willing to take. With the appropriate signs and if everyone stays out of the water (totally out) this is not likely to happen.

I don't place blame in most cases after an event like this. Just a terrible tragedy for that poor little boy and his family

This is a terrible tragedy that I would consider a freak accident. However, at a beach set up like that, I absolutely believe the warning should have been posted for the whole beach and the likely presence of alligators (maybe with a picture to maximize interpretation by kids/non-English speakers), not just a simple "no swimming". Surely just being by the water's edge could be close enough for a gator encounter.

@T.H.O.U.: right, they are everywhere in Florida and you rarely see signs warning about them. That doesn't mean I don't personally think Disney should change the signage, but it's not like they are negligent compared to the rest of this state, which is a tourist destination in itself.

The no swimming signs encompass lots of reasons you shouldn't be in that water. It's main purpose is for transportation to and from MK, so there's tons of boats, fuel pollution, recreational boat rentals driven by tourists who aren't necessarily experienced boaters, bacteria, snakes, gators, biting fish....etc. the no swimming is a blanket "don't be in the water".

Disney actually does trap and relocate gators that are seen on property, it is impossible for ANY body of water (even a roadside drainage ditch) in Florida to be guaranteed free of alligators. That being said, being attacked by a gator is rare, being fatally attacked, even more so. This was a tragic, freak accident that happened when a family's guard was down at the happiest place on earth. I truly don't believe that there is blame to be placed on either party.

@looch: What I'm guessing is happening right now is the people who are responsible for operations for the resorts are having loud arguments with their legal team. The legal team is probably advising to issue an apology and promise better signage, etc.,but not take any formal responsibility, and the operations group is probably saying no way, we should have know better, we should have had better signage, we need to fall on our sword and make amends, whatever this family wants. And depending on which side wins, either they will simply apologize and completely revamp their signage and access to anything having to do with water (as well as scout out any other potential danger zones that they never even thought to consider), or in addition to that they will also reach out to the family and offer them some kind of compensation. And if they are stopped by their legal team from offering compensation and get sued, they will likely settle very quickly and not even fight it. I don't know 100% of course, but for being the gigantic corporation that Disney is, I really have never worked with any business of any size that spent as much time trying to take the best care of their customer they possibly can as Disney does. I would be really surprised if their response was anything but deeply apologetic and remorseful.

@MrsSCB: NPR reported this:

"Sheriff Demings said that Disney has a very good wildlife control program. They routinely search the artificial lakes for alligators and euthanize them."

@keepcalmcarrie: Fair point. But I believe no amount of signage would have been adequate.

@MrsSCB: I wasn't defending the policy, just answering your question. You asked if they trawled the water in spots like this looking for alligators before this incident. The answer appears to be "yes."