Hellobee Boards

I haven't gotten through all the responses yet, but based on my experience, living in 4 different states with different tax rates, I'll take slightly higher taxes for better services. I now live in NY, and there are frankly a lot more things available to me here, like universal pre-K, affordable income-blind children's insurance, and the governor is trying to push through mandatory subsidized maternity leave. YES PLEASE.

Now, the downside is that in the last year, two of the three most powerful politicians in the state have been arrested, indicted, tried, and convicted for corruption, and NY state taxpayers are still funding their pensions (YEAH. That needs to change). Where the government has control of money, there's the pull towards corruption. However, I believe that we as citizens have the ability to hold them accountable through strong anti-corruption laws and mandatory transparency for lobbyists. Yes, the government is large and clunky, but I believe there are things it can do better because of its size, like negotiate on premiums, etc.

One last thought: I so envy the European brand of pseudo-, or in some instances, outright socialism. However, I can't help but also notice that there are many countries in the Eurozone who are also struggling with crushing debt, some even more serious than the US governments'. My father, who is quite conservative, always says that the two are related. I don't know that I agree entirely, but I can't help but wonder to what degree that's true. European bees, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

@looch: does your plan not include an out of pocket max?

@Applesandbananas: I think there's a huge incentive for insurers to compete only when a robust competitive market already exists. For example, I have family in Pittsburgh, and there's currently a mega-battle between two insurances to be the one chosen by every doctor, hospital, and clinic. But 10 years ago? There was one show in town, period. You paid what you paid, and that was that. There were no big competitors, and the market suffered greatly because of it. I imagine premiums did, too.

@Mrs. Lion: @honeybear: deductible is $3600 and then after that, it's co insurance, which means I am responsible for 15% in network. Scary, when you really think about it.

@blackbird: Absolutely.

@sera_87: I'm not sure why. I blame the province we are in! I realized I forgot to mention in my comment that he ended up getting one 1 week later privately (covered by HSA).

I'm originally from New Zealand and lived/worked in japan (and, briefly, Germany). I now live in the US.

I would take the non-US model in a heartbeat. Outside of the fact that in the US the price of healthcare is higher, I have had significantly more problems dealing with the US for-profit system. My wait times have been longer. I have had the insurance company refuse to pay for a full course of prescribed (and needed) medicine. I also have concerns with outbreaks of infections diseases, knowing a lot of people avoid doctors out of affordability.

I also think things like subsidised high-quality childcare stimulate the economy, both by keeping women in the workforce, and leading to a better educated populace. The fact that a huge proportion of the US daycare centers aren't considered high quality is scary, but the reality is the cost of daycare is so highest parents don't have a choice. This has a long term impact on education, and the economy in 20+ years, when these children are in the workforce.

I think the US hurts itself a lot in the long term. A healthy populace is able to work better and innovate better. There is a huge, long term monetary payoff for investing in high quality childcare (I read somewhere that something like every dollar a govt invests saves/makes $18 in the long run). People are better able to innovate when they aren't food insecure. Crime is lower when there is less poverty.

@Kemma: I completely agree- and there is a documentary, I *think* it is "Sick around the world," that compares different systems in developed countries and I remember one doctor on it expanded upon how doctors in her country were in medicine for what she considered the "right" reasons- not because they made more than people in other jobs (in her country, they didn't). (Not that US doctors are in medicine for the wrong reasons, but I remember that doctor's sentiment.)

@avivoca: @blackbird: also to blame, imo, could be the industrialization of agriculture, which promotes meat consumption from unhealthy sources "afford-ably," fruits and vegetables with reduced nutrition and persistent pesticides, etc.

@avivoca: so sadly true!

@DesertDreams88: yep you pretty much said everything I wanted to but was too lazy to type!

@MoonMoon: totally agree. I know for me, personally, knowing I'm gonna be taxed more doesn't make me NOT want to me a millionaire (does that make sense? On my phone and I can never type as clearly!)

@looch: You must be on a grandfathered plan. Exchange-bought policies (and, as far as I'm aware, newly written employer-provided policies) have an in-network OOP max capped at around $13k.

@honeybear: I have to get the exact figure, I think there is a max, but I don't know off the top off my head what it is.

I think the bigger issue I have is that I would have to choose care based on what my insurance would cover. In a better world, I wouldn't have to make that choice.

@Maysprout: @pinkcupcake: but don't forget there are a decent amount of deductions you lose access to if you make to much. If she is in an expensive state and has city taxes...add in sales tax plus property taxes and 45% May not be super far fetched...

I will happily pay higher taxes for better services.

We recently had to change insurance and the small non-profit my husband now works for got dropped by their health insurance, there were very few companies that even would work with them, so it has been an absolute mess. We are finally covered again, but with much crappier insurance and are likely going to have to change quite a few providers. I am very glad for the national attention over this very broken system. I haven't seen insurance companies trying to compete or give better coverage or deals, I think it's going to take a lot more to get them to stop being greedy assholes.

@sunny: lots of your way! My SIL had huge bills for a bed rest hospital stay and birth, it took a very long time to sort out, but afterwards she fought out every bill with the insurance company and got much of it sorted out.

@Cherrybee: I remember watching a documentary a few years ago and they stated that 25% of American families are only 1-2 pay checks away from the breadline through no fault of their own. All it would take is a medical emergency or a job loss and they'd go from being getting by to homeless. It was a sobering piece of information!

@MoonMoon: I meant to type 40%! Huge difference, lol. Still sucks.

Higher taxes. We already pay high taxes, but get basically no services except good schools. I also do believe that every human should be provided basic services, including health care.

@Modern Daisy: Our biggest frustration personally (we are in a relatively ok income state state and do not have city taxes) is the deductions we are not eligible for...we have had years where we paid $40K in student loan interest (both DH and I have graduate degrees) that we get zero deduction for...it does feel at times like being punished for pursuing higher education...

On the whole - I have just seen too many cases of it gone wrong. Three close friends of ours who live in countries with gov't provided healthcare have come to the US and paid out of pocket to have timely access to care they want when dealing with life/death diseases.

Add in how corrupt our system is - rarely does a day go by that I dont see someone on FB complain about their standard of living, inability to afford XYZ, sadness over what they can and cant afford - all the while posting from their iPhone. I truly believe that before people in this country are ready for a "lets make sure everyone is taken care of" approach they need a serious reality check on what life essentials are and what you "NEED" vs what you "WANT".

At the end of the day I am a firm believer I cant spend my money and ration my money better than any gov't ever will be able to - but I'd love to see some actual good ideas from politicians on how to care for the people who "NEED" help and fulfill their NEEDs while ensuring there are not abuses of the system.

@Mrs D: Student loan deductions are only eliminated for households making over $160k a year. The average household income in the US is about 50k, so if you are making $160k, I wouldn’t worry too much about not being able to deduct the maximum of $2,500 in student loan interest. I get that every penny counts, but you’ve got plenty of pennies on the other side of your balance sheet making up for losing that deduction!

I don't think you should feel like you're being punished for getting higher education for not being eligible to deduct $2,500 on your federal taxes. You guys sound like you are doing great!

Taxes Taxes Taxes!!!

It really galls me when I read about people who don't trust the government and would rather allocate their money themselves, but are they really donating and helping the underprivileged? And it's a sad state of affairs that donations are soooooooo NEEDED. We, as a country, should be able to provide for EVERYONE without having to need the charity of others just to survive.

Wealthy corporations and people who are so greedy with their money make me sick. It must be nice to be able to sit in your glass house (with your internet, your computer, your smartphone, your organic foods, etc) and boast about how you can do better with your money (must be nice to have some). Ideally we'd just kick all the poor, sick, and old people out of the country, right?? Then we wouldn't have to feel any guilt about them being homeless or starving.

Also, 20% of CHILDREN in the US live in poverty and are going hungry. But who cares about them, amiright?