Hellobee Boards

@MrsTiz: so many hugs ps. I've missed you!!

@JoJoGirl: Ya - I still give them something...but I probably only drop $1 in - whereas when I was giving food I was probably buying them $4-6 worth of food. Only exception would be someone with a child...I would likely still try to offer them food...even at the risk of being turned down...

And just to be clear - I have seen good uses of the system too...I am not only seeing negatives. Truthfully without the positives I have seen I would probably be more of the "get rid of all systems"...but because I have seen how the systems CAN help people I want nothing more than to see them get fixed and help as many people as they can in the right ways...

@Mrs D: I am curious, though, has the discussion that's occurred changed your view in any way?

It's forced me to think about stereotypes and my limited experiences with people in the system (for any reason).

@looch: changed my view? not sure I would say changed...but provided further information. I think every good story you hear improves your perception of the system - so that has been a positive. I also appreciate some of the people who have shared first hand "expert" knowledge about some of the systems and how they can/cannot be manipulated...however at my core - I believe in working for what you get. That term "working" can take on SO many different forms - so please dont jump to conclusions. Working may mean just showing up for a "check-in", providing what you can for those who depend on you. I truthfully believe every single person can and should contribute to society...and for those that do (however they are capable) I want to help. For those who want to be a drain on the system and have a sense of entitlement I have little interest in helping...beyond a certain introductory offer to come around and be a contributing member of society to reap the rewards of being a part of the society. The situation becomes very grey when you are dealing with those who have a mental or addiction illness - and I respect that. They likely require a somewhat different set of rules and thats fine...I am open to that. So while I think there have been some useful pieces of this dialogue fundamentally at my core I am not sure that I have changed much...because a lot of what I heard was "I'm cold and heartless"..."I hope you never find yourself in a position of need" (irrelevant bc if I did...I - knowing who I am - would still fall into the category of those who warrant support as a contributing member of society) and "I want to help every single person regardless of how many times they bite off the hand that feeds them" (which goes against my fundemental beliefs beyond providing basic human needs - as I mentioned earlier...I am fully supportive of homeless shelters and providing of food and water to everyone)

Unfortunately - this thread has done some negatives too. It somewhat confirms for me that no matter what - some people will always hear what they want to hear regardless of what you are truly saying.

It also really polarized the situation. A lot of what I read was you either want to hand every person a blank check or you are a bad person and have no compassion. Which I find really interesting - because really this whole time I have been saying I am supportive of a more efficiently and effectively operating system...so that more people can get help in better forms...which in turn made me a bad person.

I have wanted to walk away several times but really I found the whole thing intriguing...I obviously knew I was "out numbered" and am capable of keeping discussions civil so I chose to stay engaged because I found the meaningful responses helpful and the not so meaningful ones intriguing...

@artsyfartsy: but how do you know what they were buying with the cash they got from reselling it? I don't really think it's abusing the system to get money you qualify for and be somewhat business minded enough to buy something you can sell to get more money. Sure, the cash earned should be used to support their family, but I don't see it as my business to judge what someone should or shouldn't be buying.

@catomd00: Oh exactly. I don't know what they were using it for. At the time it left a bad taste in my mouth about the welfare system but I was just a kid. I haven't thought about it in a long time but thinking about it now, many other scenarios come to mind about how/why they were doing what they were doing.

I'm definitely not judging (although I was at the time). I just wanted to point out that that was the ONLY sort of abuse I ever saw to make a point that there's not much abuse to see. I'm not good at making points.

@catomd00: Haha exactly. The tax fraud committed by the rich is a much bigger problem to say the least.

@MrsTiz: ️️ to you, mama. I hope things are getting easier for you and your family now.

@JoJoGirl: I worked for a state policy fiscal institutes. http://www.cbpp.org is the same thing on a federal level. They do non partisan research on programs that affect low and moderate income people.

@Mrs D: it sounds like you have seen a lot of abuse. And to be fair, it means that you might have a bigger social circle and are putting yourself out there more than some of us. Now that I don't work at a homeless shelter and spend all my time with other similar SAHMs, I could easily never encounter people who weren't of the same income. I think a lot of people become disillusioned with helping the poor when they realize everyone isn't pleasant hard working down on their luck folk. I think a lot of us would form similar opinions if they had had your experiences.

The fact is, though, there has been tons of government and third party research on these topics. And simply put, most people are my abusing it. Fraud is rare, although it makes the news. Work is required, and most people do, unless they are disabled, elderly, or children. Most people do not stay on assistance for long. Most people are like MrsTiz and feel embarrassed sharing their story, so we don't hear them much.

If poverty was caused by laziness, we would see equal number of rich people becoming poor as we would see poor people becoming rich. But generally, the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. This says there is something wrong with or system.

@jedeve: so well said.

While I am not joining the argument, I know of many families who abuse the system. They work under the table and don't report all their financials so they qualify for assistance. There is a park down the road from me where people line up every morning waiting for work...all under the table. While I can't say for certain that 100% of them don't report their income a number of them do.
Then it also leads to how EBT fraud. Many people rack up thousands on EBT cards and then sell them. There's an entire black market for it. I've been offered it numerous times.
I think to say that no one commits fraud is extreme. While I don't look through people's financials I am friends with a lot of families who does this. Here's some news articles to digest
http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2015/09/worcester_woman_pleads_guilty.html
http://www.whdh.com/story/30445780/lawrence-store-owner-pleads-guilty-to-15-million-food-stamp-fraud

@MrsTiz: I read your comment earlier, but, wasn't in a place to reply. First of all, major hugs. I didn't realize you guys were in that tough of a place. I hope things continue to improve for you guys.
You're absolutely right, you never know someones circumstance and stories like yours just reaffirm my attitude and belief that we aren't to judge. In one of your comments you said "A good question to ask yourself is that if you or your partner lost their job, how many months away from needing assistance are you?" This is something that happened to us. My husband had an accident walking into work (fell on ice, had to have an elbow replacement) which, along with other injuries he'd received earlier in life, caused his body to shut down and he now has extreme pain. It's been about four years since he's been able to work and he now stays home with our girls. His income was higher than mine, so, going to one income wasn't ideal. The only reason we weren't ruined is because we (very thankfully and luckily) had money from a parent that passed away that allowed us to pay off some things. Otherwise, we would have been fucked...and, possibly on assistance. So many seem so assured that they would never put in a position of needing assistance, but, all it takes is the perfect storm of events and it could all be gone.

@MrsTiz: Thank you for sharing your story.