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We survived! P went down easily, as always, but then I panicked because the IR on the video monitor wasn't working! I cranked the volume, and went to sleep. She woke me 4 hours later and 4 hours after that for milk. Much better than any other night this week! We only had one true panic wake up, and DH took care of it at 5am. Got her right down and she slept until wake up at 7:45! Hope tonight is s's successful!
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@buttermilk: ugh. Mine had a hard time going down for the night. Usually she nurses and then does her "big chunk" of sleep. Last night she nursed to sleep at 7:15 (which had previously been when she was going down for the night! I can't believe she goes down for the night so early, and maybe I should have treated it as a nap, but she woke up 20 mins later and went right back to sleep, then she woke up 30 mins after that, and went right back to sleep. At that point I put her in her crib (she had previously been in the basinet until her first wake up) and she woke every 1.5-2 hours after that, until 7:15
This morning. I'm hoping it passes. But, my son slept like this pretty much until I night weaned him at 18 months (eventually he stretched his chunks of sleep to 3-4 hours) so I'm not totally surprised, and I know it gets better, I'm just hoping this is a wonder week/growth spurt and not our new norm. -
Why is baby sleep so confusing? I usually rock C to sleep and put him in the crib, but now a lot of nights he cries when I even hold him in the rocking position and I have to rock and pat until he stops crying and then starts to falll asleep. I'm worried that I'm setting up negative associations with being rocked
I've been sort of trying putting him in the crib awake and patting him, doing pick up put down, but it's not working at all. He just lies there for ages and eventually starts to cry. I don't even know if he's too young or if it will never work for him or if I'm just not doing it right. It's stressing me out and I kind of just want to keep rocking him to sleep as usual but I can't do it forever. Ugggh. Is this all normal? Is it meant to take an hour to put babies to sleep?
On the plus side he slept through for the first time last night. Dream feed at 930 then up at 5 for a feed, then back to sleep til 630 so I'm calling that a pretty good deal, now just to see if he repeats it.
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@kitty Same story here. Have to rock and it takes forever. I'm not stressing about it now. I'll work on it when he's older if it's still am issue. I'm not a baby expert but it's just my gut feeling that most 3 month old babies need some help from parents and TLC to fall asleep and just aren't equipped yet to soothe themselves and fall asleep on their own. And I am ok with that time I spend at night getting him down. It would be great if he fell asleep easier but it is what it is. And my LO has terrible reflux, I think he's uncomfortable a lot which makes it tougher for him to fall asleep. So I feel your pain, but I figure my little guy just still needs mama's help and I'm ok with that right now.
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@MrsADS: @kitty: I've been having the same issue but I started reading "Baby Whisperer Solves Al Your Problems" over the wknd and I think it's about to change our lives. I just put baby down in her crib without rocking to sleep for a nap for the first time ever. It doesn't mean that you don't help them fall asleep. I think that's what I always thought too and didn't see how it would ever work by you still have to teach and help them. We set the sleepy mood, swaddled and did pick up, put down and shush pat for 10 mins. She started crying every time I laid her down until one time...she just didn't! And now she is asleep! Anyway I know there's lots of methods out there but I already can't recommend this book enough! $15 on iBooks or Amazon kindle. Oh and she slept in the crib last night!
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@buttermilk wow. I may need to get this book. So do you get her already pretty sleepy before you put her down? M often times is crying and I have to rock him to get him to calm down. And he's gotta be kind of drowsy before I can swaddle him otherwise he flips out. And then he usually wakes up again in the swaddle and fights and flips while I rock him and eventually goes down. I can't imagine putting him down when he's still fighting the swaddle because I think he'd immediately freak out. Interesting though.
We are doing naps in the crib - woohoo! The crib is propped up on blocks at one end and we have a pillow under the mattress to get it up at an angle, and I have a rolled up towel around his bottom to sort of recreate the feeling of the RnP. But progress! Still doing night sleep in the RnP since I'm still too chicken to try the crib. Maybe in a few days.
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@MrsADS: Yes I make sure she is drowsy and in the mood for a nap by watching her sleepy cues - yawning, rubbing her eyes, zoning out. The author says to spend 5ish mins sitting and holding them in an upright position in the nursery to get them to transition from activity time to sleepy time (setting the mood). While calm then swaddle and spend another couple minutes settling them, again in an upright position. I guess eventually you'd be able to just plop them down in the crib like that, but she started kind of crying when I swaddled her so I did the shush/pat technique and P.U./P.D. which is that if they're crying in the crib, you first try to shush/pat while still there and if they still cry, you pick them up and shush/pat (but no rocking) until they stop crying and then literally the second they stop crying you put them back down in the crib. And repeat until they stay calm in the crib. And you continue to shush/pat in the crib until they fall into a deep sleep. She says it takes about 20 mins to go through all the sleepy stages - from first setting the mood until deep sleep, which was accurate at least for this nap. I only spent 10 mins doing PU/PD and was kind of amazed that it finally worked!
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I guess the real test will be tonight because i have never EVER not nursed her to sleep for bedtime.
1.5 hours and still going on her crib nap right now!
I even watched her fuss and go back to sleep on the monitor! The longest she has ever napped in her crib before now is 30 mins and it's usually more like 10 before i finally give in and move her to the swing.@Mrsads: also wanted to say - even with our crap sleep habits, I've always had more luck getting her to sleep in the crib at night than nap in the crib - so maybe try it, he could do better than you think.
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@buttermilk hmm interesting re: the crib. Saturday night he had a HORRIBLE bout of reflux and was up from 6-10pm vomiting, choking and screaming, it was awful. He slept not great so Sunday (yesterday) really wanted him to get good naps. So his first nap was in the RnP and he slept almost 2 hours. The rest of his naps were in the crib, I think the longest was about an hour. Last night slept all night in the RnP. Slept GREAT - from 8pm-4:45am, then from 6:10am-8:30am. Today I put him down for his first nap about 10:30 and he was up after 20 minutes and is STILL up.
He's also refluxing and hacking and coughing on the stuff he's bringing up so I think he's uncomfortable. For the baby sleep book, do they recommend a minimum age to start the pu/pd? M is only 11 weeks (on Wednesday), just seems kind of young maybe? Although maybe it's ok since it isn't really formal "sleep training"...
M's sleep would be even better if we could get his reflux better controlled. We still have a lot of really bad days still even on 3 meds and me eating basically nothing (no gluten, dairy, soy, nuts, eggs, seafood, corn, or tomatoes. It usually happens once or twice a day that I put him down asleep and he wakes himself up a few minutes later shooting spit up out his nose and screaming.
Although we're not in the ER with him anymore so I guess I have to keep it in perspective.
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@MrsADS: She says 3 months is the earliest to start Pick Up Put Down. I think 4 months is the earliest you can do CIO, but this isn't that at all. Some crying yes but you're always right there to comfort them. It's more like you're teaching or reprogramming them. Not that I'm an expert btw! This is just working for us! I know that the reflux definitely makes things harder for you, I'll skim the book to see if she mentions anything about it.
Okay so 2nd nap of the day - I put her down a little earlier. Started the routine after 1.5 hours of awake time. She cried while being swaddled but I calmed her down for a minute, then put her in the crib - NO CRYING. I did the shush/pat while in the crib for 5 mins and girlfriend fell asleep!
It's a damn miracle.
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@MrsADS: @buttermilk: it helps just to know it's not just me. 90% of the time I know he's just so little and I'm ok with how things are, but then I read a book about sleep or I hear of all these other babies going to sleep differently and I just start to doubt myself.
re the baby whisperer, I started reading one of her books recently and that's why I sort of started trying some of her methods but he's not quite 3 months so I'll revisit later perhaps. Did you get the impression that you start her methods with naps rather than bedtime? Because I can get him down fairly easy for naps but they are usually only 40 minutes unless I wear him or we go for a big car ride then transfer to the stroller, which gets him in a deeper sleep.
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@kitty: no I think she advocates doing it all at once and being consistent for all sleep periods. It all highly revolves around her EASY routine which I've been doing since about 6 weeks.
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@buttermilk: do you prop her on her side for the shush pat? It doesn't make sense to me... P only sleeps on her back in the swaddle, so I can't pat her back.
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@Mrs. Microscope: yes you prop on their side to do the shush pat. And then I've been rolling her back to her back once she closes her eyes and I just keep patting on her shoulder for another couple minutes until she is in a deeper sleep.
Naps 3 and 4 have all been the same today. A couple minutes of PUPD, 5 mins of the shush pat, and she is out!
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@buttermilk: I admire your consistency! That's great it's working out so well! I was following the eat awake sleep pattern, but I have a question for you all. His naps are so short now that if I feed him as soon as he wakes, it makes feeds a lot closer together than he has been demanding. Do I just feed him anyway in order to follow the routine? Try to get him back to sleep until next feed? He isn't on a feeding schedule but he generally goes 2.5 to 3.5 hours between feeds now.
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@kitty: the way I understand it - the feeds are what really sets the pace for the day. So up until 4 months babies can go 3 hours between feeds so you put them on a 3 hour EASY. At 4 months they can go 4 hours between feeds so they transition to a 4 hour EASY. Within that 3 or 4 hour window they'll have a 1.5-2 hour awake time and a 1.5-2 hour nap. If I were you and I was trying to get LO on that schedule I would stick to 3 hours apart for feeds and then try to figure out the ideal awake time and work on baby's sleep. If he wakes after 45 mins then do shush/pat to get him to go back down until it's time to eat again.
My LO's sleep cycles are 45 mins long. I always hear her stirring and sometime crying at that point in her nap but she puts herself back to sleep so be may just need to learn how to do that.
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@kitty: the baby whisperer forums are a great resource too!
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@buttermilk: thanks so much for your explanations! That makes sense. I'm going to try to get him more on the schedule again, fingers crossed!
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@buttermilk: those forums are amazing. I can see now what you mean about life changing. They have really good troubleshooting for 45min naps as well!
I don't know if it's hormones or what but I can be a bit up and down with my confidence and outlook. Anyone else like that?
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@kitty @buttermilk I am definitely up and down with my confidence in being a good parent! As for feeding times, we are on demand but it's usually closer to every 2 to 2.5 hours during the day.We don't really follow strict "EASY" but we do naturally fall into that pattern somewhat. Edited to add: feeding about every 2 hrs, he's still only nursing like 6x in a 24 hr period, so if he went 3 hrs I don't think he'd be getting enough.
Except the last 2 days... crib naps. UGH. He won't sleep more than 20-30 minutes at a time. I think he wakes up, and he'd usually go back to sleep in the RnP, but in the crib, he wiggles around and he's not "cradled" like in the RnP and he can't go back to sleep. I have a rolled up towel around his bottom and lower body but it doesn't seem to be cutting it. So he's been a WRECK during the day because he's so tired. He wakes up, eats, then about 10 minutes later is crying and falling apart from being so tired. So the "EASY" routine has gone out the window! I just gave in and put him down for a nap in the RnP because he was just hysterical. Sigh...
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@MrsADS: that's how all of our crib naps were until I started this PUPD & shush pat to get her to fall asleep IN the crib. Before I was trying to rock her to sleep and put her in the crib after. She would either wake up immediately or like 20 mins later tops.
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@kitty: well it's just so hard! There so many experts and methods and opinions out there, and as FTM's it's hard to know what's right for you and your LO. I feel ya.
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It's even hard as a second time mom. I'd been feeling confident about the fact that I'd been nursing to sleep and letting her sleep on the go in her car seat or in the carrier, and then the baby whisperer stuff made me second guess all of that. Haha. My son didn't learn how to put himself to sleep until he was 2.5 and I really don't want to repeat that. I do believe that sleep patterns (sleeping through the night) are a milestone, but I know I perpetrated bad habits in my son. I'm shush-patting through a mid-nap wake up as we speak. Thanks for the inspiration @buttermilk!
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^^^and that resulted in a two hour nap!
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@OhCaptain: hooray!!!!
Last night went pretty well. Like I said it was the first time I didn't nurse to sleep but she went down so easy, she didn't even cry when I started swaddling her. I did a dream feed for the first time ever, which didn't have any effect on the rest of her night sleep. She still work at 3am & 5am. I tried shush/pat but she was pretty hysterical and so I ended up nursing her both times. Does anybody else do a dream feed? I wonder if it just takes a while to "kick in?"
I still don't know why she is waking more frequently than ever before. I've even increased her supplementation in the daytime. Oh well at least she is in the crib! -
@buttermilk: E is also waking up more than ever. 3 month growth spurt/wonder week is what I'm blaming. At least for two more weeks, then I'll start blaming the 4 month sleep regression.
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I am at my wit's end with this screaming/taking ages to nurse thing. I mean I feel awful that he's screaming, but there's only so long you can handle someone screaming at you for doing what they want!!
I seriously think it's reflux.
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@OhCaptain: that's what I thought last week but can it really last this long?
@Mrs. J: that sounds so hard, I'm sorry
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@kitty: I'm definitely up and down. Sometimes I feel like everything is great (she was fussy yesterday and DH couldn't get her to sleep, I took her and she cuddled up and passed out, that was gratifying), other times I'm pretty sure I'm ruining her (we don't do tummy time so I was telling my mom yesterday that I'm pretty sure she's going to go away to college unable to roll over). Mostly I try to focus on the good, and sometimes vent to DH when I'm not feeling it. It's so hard not to second guess myself on everything! Thankfully she's a very happy baby, so at least she doesn't seem to think I'm screwing up.
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@buttermilk: ha, who knows. My sons sleep didn't recover until he was older. Like way older. He woke up at least twice per night until I weaned him, at 18 months. Obviously he wasn't nursing for nutrition then.
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Why why why. M went to bed about 7:45. Up at 10:15, 12:45, 3, and again now at 4:45. Nooooo
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@MrsADS: R was doing that right around 11 weeks.
Okay, she just broke out of a miracle blanket & muslin blanket double swaddle! I watched her on the monitor rubbing her face and flailing her arms but now I'm up nursing bc she just couldn't handle it. It happened once a couple weeks ago too. And last night she was practicing her super slow roll from back to tummy. I hope I can keep swaddling for a while!
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@MrsADS: our night too! She mostly goes right back down, but still..why!!!!!
The first few days I attributed to growth spurt, but I don't think that's it now. Wonder week still?
Also, instead of just whimpering she's got this angry cry when she wakes. -
Omg she has broken out of her double swaddle three times in a row now. Lord help me...
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@buttermilk @ohcaptain glad it isn't just me. Growth spurt I hope!! He's been eating at least every 2 hours. But taking crap naps, like only 30 mins. So after he nurses and has about 20 minutes of awake time he's hysterical again from being so tired. Seems like a newborn. Ugh! I even put him back in the RnP for naps in hope he'd sleep longer. Nope.
@buttermilk have you tried a different swaddle? We use those velcro Swaddle Me ones and I think they are pretty houdini proof.
Like now he woke up, just nursed, and he's already yawning and doing the tired fussing. I guess I will try to put him back to sleep?! IDK.
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I need to start updating my blog more! I'm trying to work up a list of things to cover every time to keep it easier. This is what I have so far. Any other things you would want to have a record of for yourself?
Current age/size
What she's working on
What makes her happy
What makes her unhappy
My current favorite
Sleep
Latest cute pictures -
Man, sounds like all our babies are being terrors!
P is sleeping well in her PnP in her room... But in 3-4 hour blocks. I still think the 15-17 week wonder weeks is the culprit, and an early 4 month sleep regression. fully expecting crap sleep until new years, when she turns 5 months old! Naps are getting better, in the PnP. Each one lasts about an hour, which I want longer, but again, new years.
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@Mrs. J: if you pump and offer a bottle, is it the same reaction?
@buttermilk: little houdini!
@Torchwood: those sound like great categories! Maybe add fun family firsts, like first trip to the zoo, went to get a Christmas tree, went to see grandma, went downtown, etc.
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@Mrs. Microscope: I like that!
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@MrsADS: I think the miracle blanket is just about the most Houdini proof swaddle there is. And I'm doing DOUBLE swaddle. Oh well, she got her arm out for a nap today and kept on sleeping for 30 mins so at least that's a good sign.
I even watched her fuss and go back to sleep on the monitor! The longest she has ever napped in her crib before now is 30 mins and it's usually more like 10 before i finally give in and move her to the swing.
He's also refluxing and hacking and coughing on the stuff he's bringing up so I think he's uncomfortable. 
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