LO is 4.5 months old
His last nap finishes around 4.
We start bedtime routine at 6. Bath, towel off, pajamas, nurse.
But when we get to pajamas he has a meltdown. He is inconsolable until he is nursing. He nurses to sleep. I put him in his crib. He wakes up 20 minutes later. I can't get him back to sleep.
The meltdown makes me think we're too late on bedtime, but the waking up and not going back to sleep makes me think we're too early.
Advice?
nectarine / 2039 posts
More info: he seems totally alert, giving me eye contact and 'talking' to me. And if I ignore him he gets a bit frustrated and starts to complain.
hostess / wonderful honeydew / 32460 posts
@cvbee: I forget my LO's sleep schedule when she was that young, but I would try starting the sleep routine 30 mins-an hour later? And see how he does..
honeydew / 7968 posts
what about getting rid of that last nap and moving the bedtime earlier? our kids' bedtime changes each day depending on if they got enough of a nap. so there are plenty times we start our routine at 5pm. they are 5 mos, btw.
pear / 1698 posts
The suggested schedule in my Moms on Call book for a baby 4-6 months is
5pm-may take catnap
6pm-keep baby awake from now until bedtime
7pm- bath routine
7:30pm- breast or bottle feed
8 pm bedtime routine (dim the lights, read a book, play soft music)
I haven't used this schedule since my LO isn't here yet, but thought it might be helpful.
eggplant / 11287 posts
I would try later. I tried to do an early bedtime with DD and she had a meltdown and stayed up for hours. 8 is best for her at this point.
nectarine / 2039 posts
THanks ladies. I kept moving it earlier and earlier thinking that I could avoid the meltdown, but it seems that he brings the meltdown to any bedtime.
For now I have given him a toy and he is just talking and sucking his fingers and talking more.
nectarine / 2039 posts
@tequiero21: you are one of the only people I've heard who changes bedtime every day. How do you calculate it? Like today he did a 45 minute nap, a 2 hour nap, and a 40 minute nap. The 2 hour mid day nap was longer than I'd normally expect.
nectarine / 2039 posts
I don't understand bedtimes anymore.
Last night we did the same bedtime and it was fine, the night before it was the same and it was bad like this.
It is 8pm and he is still not asleep. I don't care when bedtime is, I just want to get it right.
pear / 1586 posts
@cvbee: My LO is 11 weeks and goes to bed at 7. Her last nap ends at 5. However, she is totally cranky by 6:30. We usually will put her in the bath around 6-6:10 to help keep her awake/calm her down. Then we do her massage. She also freaks when it is time for the diaper and jammies but I continue. She then nurses while I read a story. I put her in bed drowsy, she generally falls asleep quickly but not always. For instance today she went down at 6:50, I went in twice and she finally was asleep by 7:25. I'm considering putting her down at 6:45 but she eats when she wakes at 5 so I feel like that is really close together for feedings. Does your LO eat after the last nap?
I hope it works out for you! Sleep is so troublesome!
blogger / wonderful cherry / 21616 posts
alright this sounds like what Cobi was doing, do you remember that? I spent several hours trying to get him to sleep. Some nights he didn't go to bed until 12-1am! It was insane.
It was at 6 months we finally started sleep training because we had tried everything else.
I actually don't think you're putting him to bed too early. He may be resisting because he is overtired. They go through phases, I think it'd be best to get to bed before the meltdown. Hopefully he'll stay asleep.
pomegranate / 3383 posts
I agree with pp that bedtime may be a little late. At 4.5 months LO always went to bed 2 hours after his last nap ended (as in, that was when he was in bed and asleep). We didn't have a set bedtime (we still don't at 6.5 months) as it depends on when the last nap ends so we don't miss that 'window of sleepiness.' He has gone to bed anywhere from 5:30-8pm...although the latest in the last couple of months has been 7:15.
honeydew / 7968 posts
@cvbee: well, i don't change it by that much. i used to start the routine at 6pm. well, their naps were SO bad that they couldn't last that long. so i moved it to 5:30, which worked fine for the most parts. but lately, they don't like to take the 3rd nap, so i move up bedtime routine another half hour to 5pm. but at this particular time, i'm trying to sleep train them, so it's taking a bit longer for them to fall asleep. they kept falling asleep at the bottle and then wake up 45 minutes later. well, for the past 2-3 days, i've been trying to train them so they fall asleep much later (takes an hour or so, ugh!), but so far, they only wake up now to eat. we'll see if it lasts! i'm hoping that they'll learn to fall asleep quicker.
squash / 13199 posts
My LO is is just over 4 months and if we put her in her crib any earlier than 9.30- 10pm she will have a meltdown too, so maybe a later bed time might help
coconut / 8498 posts
I nurse my LO to sleep as well. I love that time we have together! Anytime LO gets up after only 20 minutes, either she's very, very gassy or we tried to put her down too early. She's 4 months old, and we just moved bedtime up to 8 within the last week. She also usually sleeps more during the day than your LO. I would try putting him down 1/2-1 hour later.
hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts
Don't be taking advice from me...but I change bedtime slightly every night depending on when he is up from last nap. I try my best to have him asleep 2 hrs after he is up from nap. Bedtime routine can take an hour so tonight I started routine at 7 and he was in bed asleep by 8 but needed 2 soothes and was finally out by 820. He gets very upset after bath time but I think it's because he doesn't want to be out of the water. I do it ad part of the routine anyways.
kiwi / 549 posts
It may not be likely, but that sounds a lot like Baby X when he's teething. (After he got used to sleeping in the crib.) That's one of the ways I know he's teething-- when his eyes fly open when he's set down in his crib or when he only sleeps for 30 mins or less.
GOLD / papaya / 10166 posts
@cvbee: I think it could be teething or overtired, or both. DD would do the same thing, especially if she didn't have all of her naps (or they weren't long enough). She was fine through the bath but getting out of it would trigger a meltdown until she could nurse or get a bottle. She would wake up a couple times in the hour after we put her down. Eventually, we had to move her bedtime 30 earlier or let her get one more power nap in.
nectarine / 2039 posts
@Mrsdaredevil: when he finally fell asleep shortly after 8 last night I decided to go back to 8pm bedtime......BUT then we had an entire night of waking every 1.5-2.5 hours. (YEah, me and my nipple wanted to die). And I know last time this happened it was the earlier bedtime that cured it. But I am having a hard time getting my head around starting bedtime routine before 6. I can just hope that today's nap schedule puts us at a later last nap so I don't have to deal with questioning the 5:30 bedtime routine.
@cheesetomywhine: I feed him both before and after naps. (USed to only feed after, but seemed that large intakes of milk resulted in massive spit-up problems, and I seem to have cured that by feeding before and after. He tends to eat most of the 'meal' before nap though, and I offer the same breast after nap.)
@Coco Bee: I don't want to 'sleep train' until I understand when the proper bedtime is. Once we figure it out, then I'll start to remove myself. (In some ways I've been doing some training since birth).
@Coco Bee: @Sammyfab: It makes me nervous putting him to bed any earlier but I see what you guys are saying and it does line up with the sleep research I've done. It's just hard to trust since last night he was awake until shortly after 8, when he finally got tired again and I was able to nurse him to sleep. But then, he had night wakings alllllll night. That made me more agree with you gals that it was a too-late bedtime.
@winniebee: ha! I was starting to think it might be related to coming out of bath, but I also give him a bath in the morning and he has no trouble coming out of bath then.
@red_seattle: so what do you do?
@BabyBoecksMom: nice to know that you've had a similar experience.
Thanks for all the advice ladies. I am going to hope that today's nap routines might just put me at a later-than-5:30 bedtime routine start time because I'm having a hard time believing that he could possibly go to sleep that early. I really really appreciate all the feedback. Thank you!
GOLD / papaya / 10166 posts
@cvbee: How long does your bedtime routine take? Maybe you don't need to start earlier but just make some tweaks to it that will get speed it up and get him to bed earlier.
We start our routine at 6:30 and she's in bed by no later than 7:30. (Purees, bath, pj's, bottle, bed).
nectarine / 2039 posts
@BabyBoecksMom: That's a good idea. We do tend to give him lots of time to relax in the tub. Maybe a quick bath instead will help. Thanks.
pomegranate / 3383 posts
@cvbee: I've read too much on sleep and most say that waking up within the first 3 hours of bedtime means they're overtired. And constant nightwaking (which, at 4.5 months shouldn't be due to hunger) is definitely overtiredness. If it makes you feel any better we put our LO to bed at 5:26 last night and he fell asleep in 3minutes. We got an early wake up but no random nightwakings!
nectarine / 2039 posts
@Sammyfab: This makes me feel very much better, thanks! Isn't overtiredness bizarre? Man, when I'm overtired, I hit the bed and I am out for the longest sleep of my life. So backwards with the babies!
kiwi / 549 posts
@cvbee: We wait it out and it's over in a 2 or 3 days. It'll take a few attempts at putting him to bed before he'll stay asleep for the night. We give him baby acetaminophen too, once I see enough additional signs that he's teething to feel certain that teething pain is what's messing with his sleep. (Drool, sticking his fingers in his mouth, chewing on EVERYTHING, etc.) It might be unlikely at your baby's age, but then I thought at 3.5 months that Baby X couldn't possibly be teething already, but he was. I'm just saying not to disregard the possibility. 
bananas / 9118 posts
I have a real night-owl, I've found his ideal bedtime is right at 9 pm. Lately at 8 months he wakes up frequently and especially just as I go to bed, and only sleeps thru the night if I'm in bed with him. We are working our way through The No Cry Sleep Solution. KellyMom recommended it. It seems to be helping, but it is a longer process than CIO.
pomegranate / 3383 posts
@cvbee: lucky you! I totally sleep like a baby...if I'm overtired it takes me forever to fall asleep and I sleep like crap! Same if I'm not tired enough. These days my LO sleeps better than I do. 
nectarine / 2039 posts
@Sammyfab: @BabyBoecksMom: @winniebee: @Coco Bee:
You gals were right. I made bedtime routine start 1.5 hours after the last wake-up and we just squeaked in the go-to-sleep in time. He did still have a meltdown, so I'm going to back it up even more tonight. He did a solid first stretch of 5 hours, which was like a miracle.
And out of my 3 naps today I finally got the timing right for nap 3, which was also going to sleep 1.5 hours after last wake. (First 2 I took too long to start to put him down and he was fighting the nap and me and only napped 45 minutes....this last nap was easy-down and he slept 1.5 hours).
Sometimes it's the little things, like 30 minutes difference, that makes all the difference.
Thank you so much for your wise advice.
GOLD / papaya / 10166 posts
@cvbee: Yay!! Glad things worker better today. I hope you'll continue to see improvement over the next few days.
pomegranate / 3383 posts
@cvbee: that is amazing news! FWIW, we've put LO to bed at 5:30 twice this week because of short naps!
honeydew / 7444 posts
@cvbee: I'm glad things worked out for you! Our LOs are around the same age (mine is 5 months this Tuesday) and i find that if i don't get her to sleep within 2 hours of her first nap (where she is sleeping, not getting her to sleep) then she will have a meltdown. I just barely squeaked her in this evening!
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