What do you think can be built in to student education to end racism? I believe it needs to actively be stopped. Awareness and exposure to anti-bias education is not enough. What are you doing or plan to do with your children to ensure racism is not perpetuated?
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I will start with the caveat that my LO is still a baby, and I don't know a lot about elementary/secondary education or curriculum.
But I do think one thing that is really problematic, at least where I live, is just how ridiculously segregated neighborhoods - and hence schools - are. Overall our city is fairly diverse, but there are so many elementary schools that are like 96 - 98% white. If you don't come into contact with other kids who have different socioeconomic/racial/cultural/etc backgrounds, trying to teach it seems so abstract... I worry about LO's experience if we do move to the suburbs, because they are so white. Both in terms of him learning to respect diversity and because he is a minority, and I worry he will get tokenized...
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@periwinklebee: this was what first came to mind for me as well. So far, our daycare and school have had a fairly diverse student and teacher population. Our city is diverse and somewhat our neighbourhood too. Growing up in a very white city/school/neighbourhood definitely fostered this feeling of otherness towards any people of colour, LGBT, etc.
That I still see happening with my parents and relatives sometimes. I am going to make a conscious effort to provide books and other materials/toys to my sons that depict many different types of people, relationships, occupations, etc. We are part of the LGBT community so we try to have discussions about this already as I know at some point my sons will likely experience homophobia or bullying related to our family. His school is doing a family tree project and we plan to talk about that a lot coming up.All I could think about when I saw the video of the students was ‘I bet they never see anyone but themselves in their day to day life’ and I think that’s where it starts. Guaranteed their parents also subscribe to the same ideals, and really, that’s where it begins. The problem is it’s self perpetuating. People who are not minorities aka white people need to take an active interest in exposing their children and themselves to diversity and I just really think a lot of those who don’t will never change. Maybe that’s where the schools step in but even so, they go home to a place filled with hate/in a bubble. The video makes my skin crawl and I just don’t know what the answer is.
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@muffinsmuffins: I completely agree with all of this.
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@periwinklebee: we were actually surprised that even suburbs with that reputation turned out to be way more diverse than we thought in terms of race, and people are very inclusive in terms of race in our area. The big thing I notice is that people are *way* more judgy about money/class. Lots of keeping up with the joneses.
As for us I think we have an advantage because we are a mixed race family and our kids get a lot of exposure to differences just in our own families. So the idea that people look differently and have different customs, etc, but we still love them each and the idea of being respectful is something that is just a part of their existence. We also read (kid!) books that touch on topics and are good for discussions. We do intend on traveling more as the kids get older. We put our kids in situations where different people are in charge: teachers and coaches of different genders, races/ethnicities, political affiliations, styles, etc. We have members of the LGBTQ community in our family so that's something they have a little introduction to as well, although less so than the racial stuff. I would describe us very much in the live and let live camp. We aren't super politically involved but we definitely have these discussions with and to some extent around our kids.
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@2littlepumpkins: ugh, I really dislike the socioeconomic snobbery too...
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What am I missing? Do we not believe the student? https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/20/us/covington-kentucky-student-statement/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Famp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org%2F I will say wearing a MAGA hat is provocative.
Had a longer response, but at the end of the day kids do what they see their role models do. Decent behavior starts at home. There’s a lot more I should do to actively expose him to different cultures and people and that will start with me branching out in my own social circle.
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I feel acutely aware of this issue and worry about my kids: two white boys. They are going to grow up with almost everything going in their favor: they are white, they are boys, they come from an affluent family, etc. I want to raise them to have an appreciation of their status AND to advocate for those not as fortunate as them, including women and people of color.
Luckily, they are already exposed to more diversity than I was growing up. The town I grew up in was probably 98% white, Christian, middle-class, etc. My kids' school is much more diverse, has a wide variety of social/income levels, etc. I try to expose my kids to diverse characters in stories and shows and just model the type of behavior I want them to exhibit.
But I'd love to hear any advice from families of color on if there is MORE they'd like me to do! As a white family, I'm aware that our family has a step-up and I want us to be allies and advocates for others!
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I don't know what the answer is. We're a white family and the kids have been raised in an a community that not majority white. The kids are in Asian American majority schools and the population is shifting that direction. I've always made an effort to read books with diverse characters and have dolls with different skin colors. I seek out activities where we're with more diverse groups. But I'm failing. My daughter won't hold hands with a black girl in her girl scout troop and every reason my daughter has indicates racial bias. It breaks my heart and pisses me off. I've talked to DD about it and I expect her behavior will change but I know it will take a lot longer to change whatever is going on in her mind.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Personally, no, I don't believe the student. That letter reads like a damage control piece crafted by a lawyer with enough truth in it to allow the people who want to support him plausible deniability.
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@erinbaderin: I was thinking the same thing. The truth has a certain sound and that isn’t it. I think he’s trying to not get expelled etc. unless someone can corroborate I have no reason not to believe other accounts
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@Adira: I want to make sure my LO doesn’t grow up with a chip on his shoulder and overthink good or bad situations happen because of his race. Like @periwinklebee: says about tokenism when it’s good or microaggressions when it’s bad. When I first stared my career one of the clients I called on asked me if affirmative action had to do with me getting my job.
Anyway, this is something I do with my son and I think is helpful for all parents to do is to point out to their children when someone does something kind or good. I want LO to see that people regardless of color are kind to him or others and do good things. For instance, if someone goes out of their way to speak to him or help hold the door for us or like the other someone scooped up a piece of litter from the floor. I do a bit more than a thank you and will say something to LO like “That was very helpful for the man to open the door for us.” Idk, if this will do much, but I am hopeful he’ll take notes of lots different people doing nice things.
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Well for my family we are diversed cause my husband is half Korean. My son favors his father and is pretty much his mini twin. I say this cause I've had some people make not so nice comments about my husband and son.
I grew up in a white family from the south. My parents did sometimes make racist comments. I had some of the same mind set. I was an artist though and became friends with other artist and people online who were more open minded and decided to think for myself more. I realized that I needed to change and my parents were not always correct. Saying all this I truly believe it starts at home. Kids pick up what their parents, and grandparents say and how they act. I think schools should be diverse but I know not all will be depending on were people live. Now that being said I think at some piont teenager and young adults need to learn that they need to think for themselves. You can't go your whole life saying "well I wasnt taught this is school" or "my parents never taught me" the teenagers at the rally are now old to start thinking for themselves.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: ...No, I don’t believe the MAGA hat wearing teenager with the shit eating grin who just finished attending a pro-life march that his all male, affluent, predominantly white catholic private school organized a field trip to. Exactly as @erinbaderin wrote, these boys, their families, etc are on full damage control. While it may not have played out exactly as it was originally portrayed, I don’t believe for a second that these boys are innocent bystanders that had pure intentions.
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@muffinsmuffins: @erinbaderin: @gotkimchi: I haven’t seen the original footage that went viral. When I started clicking on the articles I came across the student’s account, the Native American elder’s account and footage of the Black Israelite shouting at everybody. I will say the students seem to do a bit more than just sing school chants. I didn’t see them egg the Native American protestors unless their chants were meant to disrupt their chants and protest. With that many students do you think they were having an unlawful, non-permitted protest/ rally or simply like the student said a rally point before boarding the bus?
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@muffinsmuffins: I agree with you. I think families are on damage control. The whole excuse to me they made, it made no sense to me.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I think what got to me the most was the screaming laughter and the jeering faces of the boys around the main teenager as well as the Native American elders tearful account. I’ve seen a few other video clips as well beyond the first viral one and I admit it’s a little muddy who is doing what.’ Their alleged school chants were pretty intense and mob-like so I can see how this is all getting twisted up. If anything, I can understand why any minority, non trump supporter could see that MAGA hat and get upset and think some trouble would be starting. It’s truly become akin to a swastika/Nazi uniforms to many and I hope these boys realize that wearing something like that can carry consequences. I would like to hear more from the elder as well as others who were there.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Haven seen additional footage, I agree that it looks like the Hebrew Israelite group were the main instigators. As soon as the students arrived, this group started shouting hideous disgusting things at them. I'm not entirely sure of how the incident between the Native American Elder and this student occurred, but I'm thinking everyone was in the wrong here, BUT I kind of expect adults to be a little more level-headed and mature than teenagers so... yeah.
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@Adira: agree with everything you said in the last post.
Everyone was wrong to varying degrees. Hebrew Israelites were the most to blame. Disgusting. It reminded me of the Westboro Baptist Church dingdongs.
Adults should, overall, have a more developed sense of right and wrong and impulse control than a 17 year old. So despite their political beliefs, I hold the teens the least responsible.Separately, I just find it so mindboggling that everyone from every political standpoint is such a hypocrite. Left, right, whatever...a bunch of self-serving hypocrites. From trump supporters to anti-trumpers. I’m so sick of all of it.
I never post on political threads, mostly BECAUSE I think they’re so hypocritical. But had to say that.
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@Corduroy: I stalked to see that your daughter is five. Please don't think you are failing. Kids will exhibit that kind of behavior to many superficial traits. Just keep going!
@SweetiePie: Exactly!!! I could go on and on.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I agree regarding the hat. The reality is, just wearing that hat is intentionally provocative. It’s like holding a billboard saying that you are, AT BEST, ok with blatant racism or misogyny. Anyone trying to say the teens were just innocently standing there is being disingenuous.
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Thankful for those who are able to move this discussion forward.
Back to the original post, what are YOU doing or planning to end racism?
If nothing, a first step is to ask POC friends or friends of friends, if you don’t have any -What is your experience with racism? Listen and discuss several stories with your children as appropriate. Hint: it is probably younger than you think. Knowing the reality of racism is the beginning to recognize there is an everyday problem. Just like environmental and economic woes, solutions lies in each of us. We can either ignore or make our lives count.
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Honestly, as soon as I saw the headlines I chose to wait a few days before reading into it. I am highly suspicious of almost everything in the news lately. Interesting article about the wait and see approach I’ve adopted https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/julie-irwin-zimmerman-i-failed-covington-catholic-test/580897/
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@808love: I am very thankful that we moved from a place we loved that was not very diverse to an extremely diverse community. We live in a place where many of the children are bi or tri lingual. I’ve never met so many international families and it makes me so happy that we are sharing meals and stories with people from all over the world. I’m so happy we are able to raise our daughter in a diverse community.
Engaging in age appropriate conversations with DD as well as modeling respectful human interaction (especially when out in public- hello, goodbye, thank you for your time/efforts) has been our approach. I think basic, kind, human conversion with eye contact and respect goes a long way. Maybe I’m getting a little off track here.
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@youboots: no, not off track. I am more observant ever of my surroundings and I notice how people just avoid each other. Not to say it’s along racial lines although it’s very taboo for black people not to acknowledge each other in public, but if you choose to make this world a lonely place there’s plenty of people to help you do that.
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@youboots: Me too! I appreciate the diversity in our communities, school and relationships. And yes, I agree--the way we communicate with one another and about one another is such an important model that our kids are always internalizing.
“Racism is not merely a simplistic hatred. It is, more often, broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others.”
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: @808love: thank you. Since I am very new to the area having direct conversations about these topics is not in my comfort area. But I am enjoying talking about the differences of ‘baby raising’ one of the friends I’ve made is a European married to a South America- we talk a lot about parenting since they have only been here a few months longer than us- and she’s interested in American culture and I’m interested in her cultures.
Any othe suggestions about how I should be raising my daughter to be loving to all people? When else can I do to support my community?
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@youboots: Your question about what can you do with your daughter to make her loving of all people?
There's one thing that sticks out in my mind--and it's the "oppressive majority" thing. White, Christian Americans have been the majority in the US for so long, that many people who grow up in a homogeneous environment truly are ignorant to the Americans who don't fit that box. I've seen it on HB (a place I consider somewhat "enlightened" overall, in terms of online parenting communities) a few times. For instance, every year, there are heated threads about Christmas and other kids "ruining it" for our kids (our, in this case, being those of us that celebrate christmas).
Our country is theoretically a country where our government is separate from any particular religion. But the white, christian segment of society has been dominant for so long, that adults don't think it's absurd at all to expect non-christian/non Christmas celebrating children to keep up this elaborate lie about Santa Clause. This continues EVEN UNTIL MIDDLE SCHOOL, and even in so called diverse places. It's not even a developmentally appropriate expectation to expect 4-8 year olds who don't celebrate this tradition, or probably even fully understand it, to keep up the charade publicly, around their friends, and at school, constantly.
I live in an area with a diverse population--plenty of 1st gen immigrants, big jewish population----my husband is hindu. AND YET, my daughter's PUBLIC pre-k had an Elf on the Shelf at school and the TA was telling all the kids he's watching for santa.
This stuff is absurd.
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I haven't read all the thread, only the last handful of posts, but I did want to add this: Take care if you choose to ask your POC family/friends/acquaintances about their experiences with racism. While it provides a learning opportunity for you, it's unfair to them. It's not the responsibility of POC to educate white people in the ways in which their experiences differ, and placing the responsibility on POC is just another way of exerting privilege. There are other ways to open your eyes to such things. (Read Why I No Longer Talk to White People About Race, or follow The Conscious Kid on Instagram. Just two ideas off the top of my head.) I have a core group of friends who engage with this topic all the time and we have fascinating conversations, so it's not always off limits, but I did want to point out that not everyone wants the responsibility of educating on their shoulders.
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@foodiebee: I couldn't agree more! As an African American myself I have experienced this. And the worst thing is people asking your expereience but then trying to minimize it as if its all just a delusion. I understand that generally people cant understand things they haven't personally experienced. For instance after my csections I always have friends that make comments about how it must be so much easier to recover from and a more pleasant birth experience. No matter how I try to explain the difficult recovery they can't grasp it. In their mind surgery must be the easy way out. So if I can't explain physical pain to another person then imagine how much harder it can be to explain social injustices that are harder to prove
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Many times it will be a burden to explain and educate when people ask POC about their stories bundled with the burden to prove that it is real. Disbelief is frustrating and drags the entire conversation down. If you are a friend and coming from a place of trust, you will likely build another dimension to your relationship and level of intimacy when asking. Books are a great starting place if you don’t even have real friends who are POC, if you get a negative response for whatever reason, or minimal reaction from people who have not found the voice to their stories yet. It may be that it is painful or it may be that they are rarely asked and are still learning as they haven't been encouraged speak about it. People are different so you may want to feel them out. I'd feel most comfortable to do this one on one instead of in a group. Thanks for the recommendations to read/view and such good points brought up throughout. My main point is educate yourself. Don’t just keep talking ABOUT POC without really listening, knowing and understanding directly that there is a range of stories and experiences different from your own lens. From there you will begin to shape your next steps.
Anyway, this is something I do with my son and I think is helpful for all parents to do is to point out to their children when someone does something kind or good. I want LO to see that people regardless of color are kind to him or others and do good things. For instance, if someone goes out of their way to speak to him or help hold the door for us or like the other someone scooped up a piece of litter from the floor. I do a bit more than a thank you and will say something to LO like “That was very helpful for the man to open the door for us.” Idk, if this will do much, but I am hopeful he’ll take notes of lots different people doing nice things.
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