266 votes
pomegranate / 3393 posts
It's very regional in the U.S. by now, rates going down in general, but staying highest in the South and Midwest.
GOLD / pomegranate / 3938 posts
I just had the most colorful conversation about circumsision with my husband and some of his friends. Gees. Strong opinions about this subject!!!
grape / 81 posts
Our 5 year old DS is but suffered complications from it :(. I didn't really research it at the time of his birth I just went with what was the "norm". We were team green with DD but decided early on if she was a boy she would have been left intact. I have a ton of guilt for circumcising our son and will never do it to any future children.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@anandam: I really don't think it's fair to compare male and female circumcision. Female circumcision is basically mutilating the genitals with the explicit intention of lessening sexual pleasure. There are no health benefits whatsoever related to it. There can be specific health reasons that require a boy or man to be circumcised, and even when it's not done for a specific medical issue, plenty of studies, including those endorsed by the WHO say there are general health benefits like lessening the transmission of HIV. Full disclosure: I'm undecided about what I'll do for any future sons but I think to compare male circumcision with FGM is a bit offensive.
pear / 1517 posts
@septca: I understand the point you are trying to make, but what stands out the most to me in your comparison to birth is that was a decision you made about YOUR body. In the most general terms, your child will be born regardless of your method of birth. As for circumcision, you are making a decision for ANOTHER persons body, a decision that can not be undone.
pomegranate / 3053 posts
I did with both of my boys. A neighbor of mine also had her son circumcised and it wasn't done right so he had to go back a second time (without pain meds) to get it re-done. It was terrible... I felt so bad for her and her son. Such a terrible experience. She said if they have more kids and have another boy he will not be. I don't blame her. I was lucky that my OB used a tool to do it so it was clean and healed really quickly. My neighbor's OB did it the traditional way... I also think b/c it's more common in the U.S. (so they are more experienced) than it is here where we live in Asia.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
I went into the whole thinking we would circ, until I was informed that the hospital does not do them, as they do a general anesthesia for the procedure and they will not do that on newborns.
So my son is not circed.
kiwi / 714 posts
@MrsSCB: my opinion on circumcision is really pretty "meh", but honestly, I don't see why comparing the two would be offensive. Female circumcision in the cultures that do it is done from their perspective for religious purposes. It may seem barbaric to us, and believe me it makes me squirm just thinking about it, but that really is because we were raised in societies against it.
The medicinal benefits of male circumcision in developed countries with good hygiene practices are really not worth mentioning unless you are talking about a specific case (ie one women said her family is predisposed to UTIs, which led them to that decision, and that makes sense) and it is known to lessen sexual pleasure for men, because the foreskin is on there for a reason- lots of nerve endings and such.
To the people in cultures where male circumcision is not the norm, is really does look look mutilation. And technically speaking, you ARE taking an intact human body part and altering it- that is by definition mutilation.
Again, I'm really not saying male circumcision is wrong, because I've also never seen a penis that isn't and for the longest time it has been the norm in the US. I would just encourage people to take a look at why there is such a double standard for the two. I do it myself and since becoming pregnant and having the "will we?" Conversation, I think it's odd that one is okay and not the other.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@lauraeabel: I disagree. Intention matters and as I said, the explicit intention of female circumcision is to lessen or eliminate female pleasure so women will be faithful to their husbands. It basically makes sex into an obligation at best and excruciatingly painful at worst, not to mention the likelihood of infection and complications. I know there's argument that male circumcision can somewhat decrease feeling but unless something goes terribly wrong, it doesn't eliminate feeling altogether. Circumcised men get plenty of pleasure from sex... I think it's offensive to people who have circumcised their sons to suggest its comparable to FGM.
kiwi / 714 posts
@MrsSCB: again, I'm not trying to offend anyone who makes that decision, because I completely understand that it is our cultural norm. I don't have a problem with it.
I just think our persception of other cultures reasoning is colored heavily by the fact that our society looks down on the female version. I wonder if someone from one of those cultures, who is happy in it, were to explain the justifications from their side, if it would sound more reasonable. Of course I find the idea that women are held in a lower view by those places than men offensive, but that really isn't a new or unique concept when you get down to it.
The fact that i agree with one genders genitals being altered but am firmly against the others does appear to me to be a huge double standard. I really am just fascinated by that part of it, I don't judge anyone who has made that decision- that would be pretty hypocritical.
apricot / 435 posts
@lauraeabel: I'm sorry, and I really do not mean to start a totally unrelated flame war, but @MrsSCB is correct in the total lack of similarity between "female circumcision" and male circumcision. In fact, most who are familiar with the procedure agree that "female circumcision" is actually a huge misnomer, as they are very different procedures, from a purely anatomical perspective. The way that even many people in those areas where it is practiced refer to it as either Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) or Female Genital Cutting (FGC).
I spent several years living in an East African country, in an ethnic area where FGM was traditionally practiced, even though it was outlawed in that country as a barbaric practice. It is a procedure that, when performed traditionally, comes with a very high mortality rate, and women who have had this procedure done have much higher rates of infections and complications and death in childbirth. It can leave women permanently disabled.
This website actually has a pretty good comparison of the two procedures: http://www.sociology.com/2013/05/circumcision-vs-female-genital-mutilation-fgm/
Again, I'm sorry to weigh in like this, and I hope it doesn't feel like piling on, but this is something that I've seen personally, and it is an extremely emotional issue for me- it is so tragic and heartbreaking to see young girls' lives disrupted in such a horrible way. And many African activists, lawmakers and medical professionals have been working tirelessly to send this practice into the history books where it belongs!
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
@JoyfulKiwi: I didn't say it was a big deal. I stated I have never seen an uncircumcised penis. I'm merely stating a fact.
pomegranate / 3643 posts
I agree comparing FGC to make circumcision isn't fair. Some forms of FGC sew the labia together to make sex impossible and put women at a huge risk of infection. It's not removing a piece of skin for a symbolic or health purpose. The goal is much different - reducing sexual pleasure. I know some argue male circumcision has the same impact but I would point out its impossible to compare those who were circumcised from birth to those who weren't. You can only compare those who were circumcised later in life to their previous experience and that is a different beast all together.
I will say sometimes FGM activists ignore some of the deep cultural beliefs surrounding FGM - in can be impossible for a woman to get married unless she has gone through the procedure. But it's still regarded by the international community as a practice incredibly dangerous and demeaning to women.
It's not fair to say their are no health benefits to make circumcision. It reduces the rates of stds and UTIs and penile cancer. The benefits are modest and so I wouldn't fault anyone for no thinking they justify surgery. But there are no health benefits to FGC.
I understand the logic that it is cutting the genitals without consent. But regardless of your feelings about the effect of male circumcision, I think we can agree that parents do not do it with the purpose of subjugating their sons. That however is the case with FGC. I think that it is unfair of victims of FGC to compare the two.
@MrsSCB: @lauraeabel: @Ms.Pumpkin: @anandam
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
I don't think comparing female circumcision and male circumcision is fair.
nectarine / 2272 posts
This is one thing my husband is VERY set on. He definitely wants a son to be circumcised. However, the fact that we're adopting is throwing a little twist in! I am not sure if the child we get would be circumcised or not!
nectarine / 2667 posts
@littlek: I'm feeling confused; could you explain how my comment offended you? I know you didn't say it was a big deal. You both brought up the point you had never seen one before and I was trying to say uncircumcised doesn't look vastly different from circumcised. I was also sharing my point of view, not debating anything (as your original post intended), so I feel hurt by your comment.
@lauraeabel: I do see how people could take offense to the comparison, but I feel like your point was that this was only a personal dilemma you're working through in your decision - not a judgement you're passing on others? (For the record, in my mind, the two are not really comparable.)
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
@JoyfulKiwi: not trying to offend you, I apologize if I did. I just never said it was a big deal not to be circumcised.
GOLD / pomegranate / 3938 posts
@JoyfulKiwi: I totally think the two types of penises look different. Just saying'.....
kiwi / 687 posts
@MrsSCB: @jedeve: Apologies for offense! I suppose we'll have to respectfully disagree. From my experiences with cut women (not so uncommon in certain immigrant neighborhoods of NYC), there's a WIDE range of what the procedures entail and why they are done. Some probably are fairly labeled mutilation (complete infibulation), but many are not, if we're using male circumcision as the basis for comparison. And I'm not certain any of the cultures involved would say they are performing the procedures with the primary intention of reducing female sexual pleasure.
ETA: Many (midwife Anne Frye, for example) would say that episiotomy (or clitorotomy, as she calls it) equates to a form of "FGM" accepted by the Western world. Nobody claims it's done to limit sexual pleasure, but it has that effect for many women, and is often medically unnecessary. It's not a black and white issue, deciding which cuts to a person's body are reasonable, and which constitute abuse.
grapefruit / 4800 posts
I'd never really thought of it too much until I met DH. He's in the it's unnecessary disfigurement camp. He convinced me.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@anandam: with all due respect, I think some more research into the practice would be helpful. The process officially known as female circumcision is most often done on girls before the age if 15 and is, in fact, done with the specific intention to "control" young women's sexual behavior. An episiotomy is NOT female circumcision. This is an informative read from the WHO:
"FGM is often motivated by beliefs about what is considered proper sexual behaviour, linking procedures to premarital virginity and marital fidelity. FGM is in many communities believed to reduce a woman's libido and therefore believed to help her resist "illicit" sexual acts."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/
grapefruit / 4731 posts
LO is... and all future boys will have theirs too.
Interesting story with LO, normally it's done when they are born but LO had some fatty folds ... might be saying it wrong... so the docs recommended waiting because if they did it then it's likely to re-grow. So he didn't have his done till about 2-3 weeks after he was born.
cherry / 138 posts
I'm going to stay out of the debate side of things, and just answer the initial question
I don't have a son, but my husband and I discussed this before we knew that LO was a girl. I am ambivalent on the subject... if it was solely my decision, I would probably opt to not circumcise. I will admit, though, that I have taken a bit of an "ignorance is bliss" approach to the whole subject (shame on me!) But, I think my husband gets more say in this one, and he wanted to circumcise, so that is what we would have ultimately done.
persimmon / 1343 posts
I only have a daughter, but if she had been a boy we would not have circumcised. I was going to ultimately leave the decision with my husband considering he knows more about having a penis than I do, and he was against it.
hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts
Nope. T is not and no future boys will be. And I'll leave it at that!
cantaloupe / 6131 posts
Currently pregnant now and if this baby is a boy, he will most likely be circumcised. I think if I felt passionately against it, DH wouldn't really fight me about it, but we feel perfectly comfortable having it done.
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