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I would never have thought to get a babysitter for a casual dinner. I had lots of friends have babies before I did, and kids came to dinner.
If we went to a bar, movie, or out to a nice dinner in the city, that was a different story. But a neighborhood restaurant that early? No babysitter.
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People rarely like other people's kids I find. Honestly, I remember how I used to roll my eyes at the antics of my kids in restaurants until I had my own child. Dinner with a LO in tow is unlikely to be fun for a child-free couple in my opinion.
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If they don't have kids, maybe they just assumed that the dinner was without kids. I don't think there is a right or wrong, just yes- I would always clarify that my LO is coming. If they have kids it would most likely be a natural part of the conversation.
I just don't think people pre-kids understand kids become a package deal with parents. My LO is very much a package deal so I would always clarify because if LO isn't coming to dinner DH wouldn't be either.
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For a casual dinner I would bring my LO. We bring him out to restaurants all the time. He's not at the "mommy mommy" stage yet, he doesn't tantrum or throw food. He might drop some pieces he's trying to eat but that's about as bad as it gets. Yes, he needs some additional attention - making sure he has food in front of him, giving him his drink when he needs it, etc. But to me, unless you're going to a non-child friendly restaurant (like if you had reservations somewhere for 8pm) then I figure it's a toss up as to whether a couple with kids will bring them.
People without kids don't realize that you can't just get a sitter at the drop of a hat. Or that it might cost more for the sitter than for the entire dinner. They probably just assume that it's easier and more fun to get one.
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Well, where I live it would have totally been assumed that you would bring your baby to dinner. (Actually, my DH and I just went on an expensive dinner out with some friends to the nicest restaurant in town and no one looked at us funny for having our 6 month old in tow - that's the norm!)
I don't think you should feel bad about bringing your LO along as this is more a get together with friends instead of business, it sounds like? I would just clarify that you won't be getting a sitter so they have a head's up. And maybe it's just because this is the culture I come from, but I don't find children at dinner so overly distracting that it detracts from adult conversation.
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Childfree or not, in my circle we always ask/specify if it's childfree or not ahead of time.
My dd is super easy and we take her everywhere most of the time, but I peesonally can't give my full attention to who I am with and fully enjoy our time when DD is there so I do find childless nights important, especially with people I don't see often.
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Wow, I'm like you - it never would have occurred to me to get a sitter! And now I'm reevaluating all the friend-dinners we've gone out to in the last couple years... I wonder if my friends wanted a kid-free dinner!
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I usually just say "I'm going to bring LO if that's okay" but I agree with PP, I am definitely not as focused on others when he is with me.... It just depends on your LO though!
I totally know what you are saying abut date nights being so rare, I wouldn't "waste" a sitter night on a casual double date! If we are spending on a sitter, I want DH all to myself unless it is a special occasion like a wedding or birthday party.
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We always plan ahead whether it's us suggesting it be child free or that we're bringing DS.
Our friends are usually flexible and don't mind either way. Unless it's a "late" dinner, then DS doesn't come along.
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I always let the couple know ahead of time if we're planning to bring LO. Anytime a child free couple wants to do dinner, I assume it's without him. I wouldn't think that they would want us to bring him unless they specifically tell me that.
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As a mom, I would assume it was a child free dinner unless they explicitly mentioned seeing L.
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It's funny, my answer has changed since having kids. Before I had a baby I would have assumed it would be child-free unless otherwise specified. I remember being childless and inviting a couple to come have dinner with us. As an afterthought I said something like, "And you are welcome to bring Sammy too, of course." I don't remember what she said in response, but my impression was that unless I had specified no kids the assumption was they would definitely be there.
Now that I am a mom I tend to think it should include kids unless specified. So best to clarify in advance, either way!
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I would assume you would have a sitter unless it was specifically mentioned. While kids are cute, they change the dynamic. It's like a wedding invitation- if someone isn't mentioned on the invite, they are not invited. The rule here is that people who are bringing their kid(s) mention it in advance. For example, I had dinner with a friend this week, who told me she could meet Tuesday with her child or Wednesday without. I chose Tuesday, but appreciated that she was considerate.
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I'm a parent, in this situation I would assume the baby would be left at home as well. Dinner with a former boss to me reads as "adults only."
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I am pregnant with our first but am always very conscious of making plans with friends who have little ones. If it is lunch or an early dinner I suggest family friendly places assuming they will bring their kids. Our friends usually ask if our plans are kid friendly and offer to get a babysitter if not.
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Dinner with a former boss (to me) seems like an adult only event...
I usually take my kid everywhere. Unless it's a bar or super fancy place, i bring my daughter along.
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I also would never expect to bring my kid along in a situation like this. Perhaps if the other couple also had young children, but I would still ask.
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I would (and totally do), bring my kids to casual dinners.
I think your husband's former boss was just being polite and in case you did hire someone, she wanted to apologize :). she was probably not feeling well either, and just went with her first thought :). I bet she would've loved to meet your son, especially as you mentioned you guys have a friendly relationship with her :). who knows! I wouldn't worry about it
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When lo1 was born we lived close to a bunch of restaurants and would go out regularly with Lo in tow, including with bosses. That would have gotten pricey and annoying to hire a sitter everytime we went out. it's diff now that we moved and restaurants aren't just a quick walk down the street and there's 2 Los to wrangle but it def wouldn't have occurred to me then to get a sitter for a 630 for a casual dinner. Before we had kids if we grabbed a bite with friends or coworkers on the weekend that had kids I always assumed it was the whole crew unless otherwise noted.
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I think this is regional for sure. In my area (the midwest) - it's not unusal to see babies at pubs, midscale restaurants, and such, as long as it's before 9 pm. DH and my's rule of thumb is a couple of things - as long as food as served, it's before 9 pm, and a majority of entrees are less than $25, we bring baby.
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I would assume dinner with an ex-boss means no kids (regardless of whether or not the ex-boss has kids).
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I have kids and I would have assumed it was a kids free dinner. I always ask and specify if kids are invited.
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I would have clarified kids/no kids before the event. But we've never even used a real babysitter, so we are more the type to just be up front about picking times/places we can definitely bring LO. Aaaannnnddd we've cut down on our social lives since we had LO.
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To give one (currently) childfree perspective - clarifying is always good/polite and never a mistake IMHO. Once a couple came to a dinner party at our house and brought their child without asking or even telling us. We didnt have an extra seat or dinner ... you get the idea. And once a couple brought their kids to drinks with us in a hotel bar. The point is, it just would be helpful to ask or tell them you are bringing a child!
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I would have assumed it was an adult only dinner as well. The way things work in my circle of friends that include child free couples and couples with kids is when plans are being made the friends with kids always say something like " I will have to see if I can get a sitter that day" and whoever is planning it will either say, " kids are welcome" or just " ok let me know if you do" so it makes it pretty obvious if the planner is ok with kids or not for that occasion. No confusion and no awkward conversations about it
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I'm finding this pretty interesting. For me any time before 8 pm would indicate that we are bringing the kids. But I guess anyone that knows me well enough that we are going to dinner together already knows that I'm a package deal.
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In the situation you're describing, I would have assumed you would not bring your LO. If it were a couple-friend of you both or other parents, etc, then it might be different but given the people you were meeting for dinner, I would not take my LOs and would have made the same assumption as the people you were supposed to meet. Probably a good idea to clarify in the future!
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To me, it depends on the degree of friendship -- with close friends, I'd definitely bring LO, but with acquaintances and not-so-close friends, I'd assume it was child-free unless LO was specifically invited.
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maybe we're skewed by the fact that we have no family in the area and haven't spent money on a babysitter for a night out for just us in the 2 years we've had her, but i would have also assumed LO was going to a 6:30 dinner. sounded like a casual dinner, even though it was an ex-boss. for the future reschedule, i would definitely clarify and if they want something without LO, i would actually probably stay home or have them over after LO went to bed!
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Even with my close friends, we always specify if it's kids-included or kid-free. If it's not specifically mentioned, I would assume that the dinner would be kid-free, regardless of how "fancy" the restaurant is, or what time we're meeting.
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I'm always under the assumption that it's child free unless otherwise specified. If we planned on bringing M it would be something I'd mention ahead of time.
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For those bringing up invitations who is doing the inviting when talking on the phone and agreeing to meet up? I guess I've never viewed a meetup as one party having dominating control of the invitation specifics.
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I always assume dinners with friends are child free occasions - we have a 7 pm bedtime and even a 5:30 meet time would make me feel rushed and I wouldn't be able to enjoy catching up. Plus, at 15 months, LO is a little crazy in the hour or so before bedtime so she's wouldn't make the best dinner companion!
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@Maysprout: a convo would like this...
Scenario 1
Lemon: hey mamafriend, you want to get together for lunch soon?
Mamafriend: yes, how's Saturday.
Lemon: perfect see you thenKids not mentioned at all. I'm not thinking kids will be there.
Scenario 2
Lemon: hey Mamafriend, you want to get together for lunch son?
Mamafriend: love too this weekend, but would need to bring the baby.
Lemon: oh, okay. (A)Or...Lemon: oh, I was hoping we could drink cocktails at lunch, when are you available sand baby (B)
So, it's just communication.
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Hmm, I live in NYC and I take DD out with me a lot. To the restaurant, the bar you name it. I don't ever assume though, I always tell people I am bringing her. I don't think I have ever taken her to dinner without it being clear that the people we are meeting want to see her.
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I just clarify when making plans. I do find it hard to focus when DD is along and if it's a double date so to speak I feel left out b/c I'm focused on DD and miss out on the conversation
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@Baby Boy Mom: agree with everything you said.
Very interesting discussion. I always assume friends know we're bringing LO to an early dinner but this is making me wonder haha. If LO was a terror at restaurants maybe it'd be an issue but she's great at restaurants and I've never felt like I couldn't participate in conversation.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: sure if it was a convo with that specific purpose in mind. Most of our plans come up more spontaneously though when we're chatting with people, which I guess was what I imagined she was describing, maybe not though. I also wouldn't think a drink would exclude lo though. But if it's me and dh going out during non bedtime hours we'd have to have a good reason to hire a babysitter. I don't mind hanging out with friends during family hours (non work kid awake hours) but at least in our group maybe bc of the number of hours worked those are fairly clearly family hours and it would be specified and with good reason why kids were excluded. Otherwise people wait till after bedtime.
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@Maysprout: you're so right about drinking not excluding LOs. My earlier example at the Mexican restaurant with the double dipping LO involved margaritas for both my friend and I. Typically, we drink til tipsy, but with a LO my pal was one and done. Not quite the same, but close enough. I think those three lines of convo could come up in a much larger discussion though.
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I always ask, "Should I bring B?" regardless of the occasion. I never assume my child is welcome just because I am. Maybe I'm not in the norm, but I also don't see my son as a "package deal" with us. Not all situations are toddler appropriate. I'm not going to miss out on occasions for the simple fact that my son wasn't invited.
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94 comments