Talk to me about your experiences... What do I need to know?
Overview:
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/01/sleep-training-ferber.html
Talk to me about your experiences... What do I need to know?
Overview:
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/01/sleep-training-ferber.html
persimmon / 1129 posts
@LindsayInNY: Do you have Ferber's book? I found the book very helpful, even though I only read the first couple paragraphs. He also has a chart in there of suggested time frames to wait.
With the caveat that there's nothing that works for every kid, I have to say we used his method exactly as outlined in the book and it worked so well. We did it at about 5 months. DD was waking up like 5 or 6 times a night and she dropped down to once a night and was able to fall asleep by herself when we put her in her crib. The first night was rough for me - I drank wine and watched Parenthood on Netflix. But by the second night, she had already improved and by 4 days in she was down to one waking to feed in the night.
cantaloupe / 6131 posts
Checks never worked for my son - it made him angrier - so we had to go full extinction CIO. My husband handled it while I went away or hid or something, but I think DS' longest crying jag was 45 minutes at a stretch. We did naps and nightsleep at the same time, so it took us a little longer overall, but I think within a week it was okay. DS always cried (and still often does at 15 months) when going down for sleep, but it often never lasted more than 10 minutes. I think it was just his way of winding down.
bananas / 9229 posts
@My Only Sunshine: I bought the Kindle book over the weekend and started to read it. We're hoping to start Friday night so I'll have the rest of the week to kee reading. DD was STTN around 2-3 months and when I went back to work it mostly stopped. Sometimes she's up once a night, sometimes 3 or so times, sometimes within an hour or two of going to bed. Most times I nurse her back to sleep but that isn't ideal or a good routine to get into. I'm praying this helps...
@gingerbebe: Yikes. Good to know in case we encounter that! Full extinction is literally complete CIO?
cantaloupe / 6131 posts
@LindsayInNY: Technically yes - you let themselves cry it out completely until they are asleep. Its tough and not for everyone, but checks literally made him FURIOUS and gentler methods just did not work. Shush pat, attended CIO where you sit nearby where they can see you, pick up/put down - all that stuff did not work for him. He cried angrily through all of it. So DH was like if he's going to cry anyway, let's go with full on CIO. Listening to DS cry did not bug DH at all, hence he handled it.
pear / 1586 posts
We did Ferber by the book right at 4 months, just for falling asleep (not MOTN feedings), and it worked like a charm. I highly, highly recommend reading the book - I just checked my copy of the book and the key pages are 72-75.
We started early because his sleep was absolutely atrocious and rocking, swaddling, etc. stopped working. We also noticed (on a long overnight car trip) that he was started to suck his thumb and use a lovey to self-soothe, so it seemed like a good time to try. Basically, he was crying even through our attempts to soothe, so we figured we might as well try Ferber. For us, it worked in about 3 nights - the first night there was about 10-15 minutes of crying during the first hour of the night, but otherwise he never got past the first "interval" for checks. DH was really strict about it - if he calmed down, we restarted the timer. I have to say that DS is generally pretty easy-going and not much of a crier, so it wasn't too challenging. The first three nights I went out and walked the dog while DH manned the checks and monitor. If you have any anxiety I definitely recommend having your DH take over for a bit while you get out of the house or take a bath or something.
The key for us was moving the feeding portion of the bedtime routine just slightly earlier - so, I would nurse him, then we'd put him in his sleep sack (enough to wake him up even if he'd dozed off), then sing a song (same song every night to create routine), turn on white noise and put in crib. We also gave him a lovey which really worked for soothing.
As far as how it improved things, here's part of what I said in a different thread (when he was about 5 months old; he's now 15 months old and still a great sleeper):
"He goes down awake now and we've also been able to put him down earlier successfully. Before we sleep trained, he would not go to sleep before 8 or 8:30 and would often wake back up within 30 minutes of being put down. Now he goes to sleep at 7:15-7:30 every night. We reduced MOTN wakings and he can put himself back to sleep if he does wake up (not to eat). MOTN feedings have shortened in length pretty significantly. And his napping has mostly improved, and we can put him down awake for naps too. (We weren't planning on nap training but it inadvertently worked.)"
hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts
We did it at 9 months to eliminate night wakings. After 2 weeks he never stopped waking up even though I had night weaned. Then he got sick and I started nursing at night. He's nearly 12 months and wakes up at night 80% of the time. #fail. He goes to sleep by himself for bed and naps. I think the lure of the teat is just too much for him at 330 am....and he'll sleep through when I wean. It's just much easier to nurse him for 5-10 mins than to deal with the night crying when I have another kid to take care of, and work.
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts
I'm another one where checks only made her angrier. And like @gingerbebe: my DH said if she was going to cry anyway, she may as well cry while getting used to going to sleep on her own rather than cry while we rocked and bounced her. But I still read the Ferber book (well, parts, I was really sleep deprived!). We did it a little before 4 months when everything else stopped working.
We only did it for falling asleep, not for motn wake ups. Hers weren't too bad (once or twice most nights) and trying CIO for them was just a fail for us. She ended up sttn at 9 months on her own.
nectarine / 2987 posts
Checks worked well for DS. We went in, reset him into a comfy position if necessary, said a calm "night night time to sleep love you" with a pat on the back and walked out. We did 1 minute, then 3, 5, 7, and 10. Then we stayed at 10 until he was asleep. It ducked to do but the result was awesome. Happy kid loves his bed and will call for us at night if he needs us, so clearly doesn't feel abandoned, but doesn't need help to sleep. Win win. I'm not sure it's going to work for DD though...
nectarine / 2243 posts
We did our own mashed up version of this near 4.5 months. Shushing and patting during checks. I think I started with naps. Though the older she got patting made her mad and we picked her up for a very brief period only. She now goes to sleep for all naps and night sleep totally awake. She's out in less than 5 min; rarely is it 10 min. Sometimes she cries a little or babbles, maybe 2x/ month it is brief screaming but it is over by the time I pour myself a glass on wine. Ha. Both of our families are shocked when we put her down awake and walk out, but by the end of the day they are in total awe like "wow I can't believe she just....goes to sleep! It's incredible!!" Yeah yeah well it was heinous before we got to this point, so yeah. But it is such a stress relief to not have to work to get her to sleep every night.
honeydew / 7463 posts
Same as @gingerbebe: & @Foodnerd81: Checks just weren't going to work for us, they made him angrier. So we went full extinction. It was painful for 3 nights, but effective and he's been sleeping 12 hours every night for the past year.
You'll know pretty quickly if checks will work for you or not, I think. Good luck! Sleep training is hard but very rewarding!
honeydew / 7463 posts
@Littlebit7: Same here with people being shocked that I just plop him in the crib and walk away. I've had a few babysitters, a nanny, and friends all stare at me in disbelief when I walk back out of the room in under 2 mins.
nectarine / 2028 posts
My son got more upset when we'd go in, so we had to just let him CIO/self-soothe without intervention. Luckily for us he got the concept pretty quickly, and now puts himself to sleep every night. He sleeps most evenings from 8 PM-6:30/7 A.M. the next morning, which is pretty amazing for us. Unless he is sick/teething/etc. (and I feel like I can discern those cries at this point), we let him sort himself out, and he almost always can put himself back to sleep. Teaching your child how to put him or herself to sleep is so important, IMO!
clementine / 856 posts
We did a modified Ferber at around 4 months for going to bed only, and it worked great. It was modified b/c we stretched out the check intervals since we thought the ones recommended by Ferber were too close and might piss LO off more. He cried 40 min the first night, much less the second, and very little the third.
Of course, now I'm in 18 month regression hell and we've had to go extinction CIO because when we tried checking it was ugly.
pomegranate / 3658 posts
I suggest checking this post: http://www.hellobee.com/2012/03/23/when-to-sleep-train/
Highlight:
These are their recommended ages for good and not so good times to sleep train:
0 to 2.5 months – not so good
2.5 to 4 months – good
4 to 5.5 months – not so good
5.5 to 7.5 months – *ideal*
8 to11 months – really not so good
12 to 16 months – good
17 to 21 months – not so good
22 to 27 months – good
28 months to 3 years – not so good
3 to 3.5 years – good
3.5 to 4 years – not so good
We Ferbered at 4.5 months and it was life-changing and totally necessary because we were spending tons of time bouncing her every time we put her down for a nap or bedtime and it was exhausting. But, it wasn't the best time for her. She got it, but she relapsed several times until she was about 5.5 months. That was extra hard, having to hear her cry again after forcing through those first few CIO nights. After about 5.5 months though she has consistently let us just dump her in the crib (after the routine of course) and she puts herself to sleep. It's wonderful.
bananas / 9229 posts
@jape14: I've been reading the book... I think the biggest issues for me are Chapters 4 and 6 - with sleep associations and nighttime feedings. I would like DD to be STTN. She was doing it from 6-12ish weeks so I know she can and doesn't necessarily need to be eating. But I don't know if she NEEDS to eat overnight or just WANTS to? I do nurse before bed so maybe I wait to put her in the Merlin suit until afterwards?
@ChiCalGoBee: DD is on a similar sleep schedule - down by 8:30 most nights and up at 6:30. I just can't get her to bed any earlier, we're not home in time.
@PawPrints: Thanks, I'll check that out! DD is just over 5 months now. I really want to stop the middle of the night feeds which only started to get her back to sleep...
nectarine / 2173 posts
@LindsayInNY: we waited until 5.5 months because she was doing pretty well until about 5 months. We did Ferber with checks at 3,5,7 minutes. Never had to go longer than that and it only took a couple nights. We did bedtime and naps in crib at the same time which I think was helpful - she learned quickly that it was time to sleep if she was in her crib. Previously we could t get her to nap in the crib. Nighttime sleep training was definitely easier than the naps.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@LindsayInNY: She may want to though now that you are back to work.
We couldn't do checks and didn't want to do elimination. We just let them fuss/cry for a bit and then went in and rocked them to sleep. It was enough to get him to realize it was bedtime and then he would calmly fall asleep.
pear / 1586 posts
@LindsayInNY: Ferber for falling asleep truly worked for sleep associations for my DS. I think waiting to put her in the Merlin suit until after nursing would definitely help. Also, if she's at all close to rolling you may want to wean from the Merlin suit at the same time (we did this when we Ferbered and went to a sleep sack). The other thing we did is to try to replace the old sleep associations (i.e., feeding and being held) with new sleep cues (same bedtime song every night and nap, white noise, and a lovey). I can't comment too much on the STTN issue bc DS kept one MOTN feeding until about 7.5 months. To eliminate that, we really worked on upping his intake throughout the day and that took us a while bc he had reflux - he basically didn't STTN/drop that last night feeding until his reflux was improved. In my experience, once the going to sleep problem is solved, the random night wakings resolve pretty closely after, and then it's a lot easier to tell whether MOTN feedings are due to actual hunger.
pomegranate / 3658 posts
@LindsayInNY: It can be tricky to gauge whether LO needs MOTN feedings or just wants them. What worked for us was when we transitioned to the crib, sleep/nap trained, and transitioned from miracle blanket to Merlin suit (did this all at once), every time she woke up at night DH would go in there and replace her pacifier and pat her and then leave and wait a few minutes to see if she would self-soothe. Every time, she fussed quietly for a minute and then went back to sleep. So we concluded she wasn't really in need of those feedings and stopped going into the room when she woke. That has worked well ever since, and now we don't turn the monitor on at night so we only hear her if she's really upset and in need of us. (So we aren't waking at every little peep).
blogger / honeydew / 7081 posts
We used it mostly to teach her to fall asleep on her own, around 4-5months I believe. Progressively longer checks and it took about 7-8 days.
bananas / 9229 posts
@sapphire: She naps in her crib at daycare without any issues so I know it's possible!
@T.H.O.U.: May want to eat overnight? I know she doesn't NEED to per se though because she didn't use to. I think I just use it as a crutch.
@jape14: All she does is roll now! We went from Halo Sleepsack swaddle to the Merlin suit. She hasn't rolled in that though. We tried letting her sleep as in without anything over the weekend and she didn't sleep any better... Wishful thinking...
@PawPrints: My problem is that I almost automatically go in and feed her. So as much as DH won't want to take the lead here, I think he'll need to. We either need to let her fuss in the middle of the night OR he needs to go in to settle her. I can't keep automatically feeding just to get her back down.
pomegranate / 3658 posts
@LindsayInNY: That is exactly what I had been doing (except she was in the co-sleeper not the crib at that point, so it was even harder to resist just hauling her up next to me and nursing every time she made a sound). It was a very deliberate decision to have DH take the lead for a while so we could see if she really needed to eat. Good luck!
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@LindsayInNY: Yea, I was just trying to say that I get that she may not HAVE to but you never know that her needs may have changed. She may be going through a growth spurt. Or developmental change. Or changes from now being in daycare. I just think its hard to say just because they did it before that they may not NEED to do to it now.
bananas / 9229 posts
@T.H.O.U.: Agreed... I wish I knew whether she's truly hungry or not? Is there any way of knowing?
pomelo / 5258 posts
@LindsayInNY: Does she really eat with enthusiasm when you feed her? Are the wakeups spaced apart to where she might be hungry (>3 hours?)
We did CIO for falling asleep at 4 months for both kids and it worked well. DS is almost 6 months and has totally regressed due to teething and an ear infection but we're looking forward to doing it again.
bananas / 9229 posts
@Corduroy: Sometimes she does initially but not like she would after sleeping all night. She starts off and then fades relatively quickly. It's sometimes hard for me to pay too much attention too since I'm tired... I try not to feed if the wake ups are less than 3 hours. But, to be honest, boob is often easiest way to get her back down which is why I resort to it - whether needed or not. And hence why we're in this position now
bananas / 9229 posts
Ugh please tell me this gets better... Friday night DH woke up once with her and she was back to sleep in about an hour. Saturday night she slept 10 1/2 hours straight without even waking up! Tonight? Disaster. I've been up since 1:10 and its 2:40 now. I wake up at 5:15 for work... She'll fall asleep and then wake up again. I got a 20 minute stretch from her just as I went back to bed. Just changed a poopy diaper so I'm hoping that'll help... I need to get back to bed. I've been up so long my stomachs growling. She's hoarse from crying. Please tell me this will get better... It's taking all I have to not go in and just nurse her.
nectarine / 2987 posts
It does get better, but it's not always a linear process. If she's been restless that long she might be truly hungry tonight. Maybe she ate less or was more active yesterday?
bananas / 9229 posts
@MrsSRS: How do I know though? I don't want to just rescue her with a boob and continue that habit. I also don't know how long she was sitting in a poopy diaper.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@LindsayInNY: I'm so sorry. My guy is doing good STTN (we have weaned though but give milk if he wakes). Saturday night was the same up from like 3 am -4:30 am. Just couldn't stay asleep. Even after letting him cry he just needed more milk and as soon as he took more ounces he fell asleep for another two hours until morning and woke up starving in the morning. Looking back we were outside Saturday (works up an appetite) he had a big poop after dinner and therefore hadn't ate much dinner. So I think he really just was hungry that night even though we tried to hold him off. Usually him falling asleep but waking right back up is a sign for us he's hungry. But you kinda just have to know your kid. Having DH try to get her back down first is a great idea. If he can't do it within XX amount of time then maybe you try or feed.
nectarine / 2987 posts
My time limit was an hour. I figured if he kept it up that long he probably needed a snack.
apricot / 363 posts
@LindsayInNY: I'm so sorry ya'll had a bad night! We have had to CIO for naps but not for night (yet!) so no suggestions but you have my sympathy!
bananas / 9229 posts
@T.H.O.U.: She didn't use to nurse overnight. I only started it when she started waking up because it was the easiest way to get her back to sleep. So now I feel like I've made it a habit and that she doesn't really *need* it? But I don't know. If only she could talk and tell me
@MrsSRS: I went back to the book to see if there was any mention of a time limit... I just feel like if I give in, she'll know and expect it. I think it's going to be a rough week. I'm going to give it that long and if it doesn't get better, maybe now isn't the right time...
@rpparker: I may have cried along with her at one point - from the couch of course.
grapefruit / 4278 posts
It's probably really difficult for her to go from 2-3 nursing sessions overnight to none with just the flip of a switch. I believe the book talks about eliminating sessions more slowly and pushing them back and/or reducing feeding time rather than just cutting cold turkey. Since she started needing night feedings once you went back to work, it may be that she's not getting enough during the day and actually needs them.
For us, sleep training helped to reduce the number of night wakings to 1 or 2. But we were never able to eliminate them completely until he dropped them on his own just before he turned one.
squash / 13208 posts
@kiddosc: ditto - sleep training for us wasn't to eliminate 100% but to get it down to 1-2 - DS was waking every 2 hours so only waking 1-2 times was heaven to me!
bananas / 9229 posts
@kiddosc: She was just having one a night most nights. Sometimes none. If we were traveling or something, it could've been more, but again this was more me feeding her to get her back to sleep and not necessity really. But you have a point with work...
nectarine / 2987 posts
@LindsayInNY: Yeah, it's hard. I have one who needed me to not give in ever ever ever and one who is more go with the flow and won't cry forever because of being fed once one night. Little stinkers. You're doing a great job.
bananas / 9229 posts
@MrsSRS: Thanks... Certainly didn't feel like it when DD woke up hoarse and raspy this morning
nectarine / 2987 posts
We didn't do middle of the nights this way with DS, but it took him weeks to learn to fall asleep without crying. Ok, I know you don't want to hear that, but here is the good news: now he goes to bed cheerfully, he loves his bed, sometimes he asks for nap when he's tired. And if htruly needs us in the middle of the night he does call for us, so it's not like he's been trained to just go be quiet in his bed all night.
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