Hellobee Boards

Literally everyone in TN? If we're still here when our kids are old enough for me to be able to handle going back to school, that would be amazing.

@jhd: @Torchwood: I'm pretty sure it's for the entire country. He's just announcing it while physically in TN?

He wants to launch a national program modeled after the Tennessee Promise.

@T.H.O.U.: many community colleges are open access - meaning, no entrance exams. All of PA's are. Community colleges already do have extensive remediation programs in place - they are generally part of a large portion of cc students' curriculum.

It varies by state but PA has a very extensive network of articulation agreements bt CCs and 4 yr colleges.

The needs of cc students and the current systems' ability to meet this program demand will vary widely across the country. From what I read, the president envisions it as a program with federal-state components, so if enacted, each state would probably build their own program within the federal guidelines.

Noooo, who's going to pay for this?!

I would love to see it but I am biased as a community college teacher. It would make goals for students and a pipeline to university. If they could move a few career oriented 4 year degrees down (nursing, early childhood ed and even teaching) it would be even better. We all pay for it. Either now or in the future because we pay unemployment and welfare...

@brownie: oh my! That was a mouthful. Lol

During the most recent recession I recall many college educated people lost their jobs and were unemployed for a long time. A degree doesn't insulate one completely from an economic down turn. Just anecdotally, my aunt and her son went straight from HS to work and have steadily been employed with the same organization ever since. Not going to school doesn't mean one be will certainly draw on other government programs.

@brownie: ok, I see the connection you are making now. Do you think AA and bachelor degrees for some of these jobs is a good idea? Instead of raising the bar for additional study & coursework, I would love to see strengthened HS curriculm and tracts that prepare students for the workforce.

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: and by making it affordable (free) we can actually open up more time for students to be students. Right now many students take forever to finish because they can't devote the time to it (for family and for jobs). The students I see are often juggling jobs, living on their own/families and education. They can't put in 10 hours a week for 4 classes and 40 hot work weeks to pay for it (often at low wages). This could lead to longer class time but less out of class time.

@T.H.O.U.: the colleges administer placement tests. To my knowledge, they don't cost anything in PA at any of our CCs, for at least the first testing round and possibly the second. It's part of the cost of doing business. Remedial classes are very often part of the cc student course load, even if they aren't getting credit for them. It is unfortunate what many students don't know/aren't capable of when they graduate with a high school diploma. Remediation is a very large part of what happens on community college campuses.

On the other hand, believe it or not, *many* students use community Colege as a stepping stone to a bachelors degree, transferring from CCs to state schools, private schools, and some of them go on to to tier Ivy League schools. So this plan could do a lot to reduce the cost burden of higher education in the US.

This program could be used to pay for certificate programs, too- just because the program will cover 2 yrs of school doesn't mean that everyone will be shunted into an associates degree.

@brownie: exactly!!!

@dagret: Ok, my point is the "cost of doing business" has to be paid from somewhere. It costs quite a bit of money to administer those placement tests (they try to keep them updated to latest standards, transition them to computer based tests, etc). To run those remedial courses costs teacher time, facilities use, etc. The "cost" has to be paid from somewhere. Either from the student, the state, or the feds.

I agree with the idea of making it more accessible, I just think its more than just offering free college credits.

As you said, many do use it as a stepping stone to a bachelors degree, but if universities are not going to honor the community college credits then it was a waste of time for the students and the system.

@blackbird: I love the idea of free college IF the job market likes the idea of free college.

What worries me is that if we have some free college and some paid college, the job market is going to discount the free college as not being good enough/equivalent and then, what's the point?

I think we need to look at the degree programs and filter out what needs a degree and what doesn't. Like if you want to be a straight up bookkeeper, do you need a 4 year degree from a college, or would a 2 year associates be sufficient? I think it's great that we want a highly educated workforce, but are we educating them in the right things, especially considering the costs.

@brownie: Totally agree with everything you’ve said.
I’m generally in strong favor of any program that makes higher education / advanced technical or job training more accessible – both in terms of students getting into classrooms to learn, and making learning affordable.

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Agree that a 4-year degree (or any degree) definitely isn’t a magic bullet against unemployment, there was a stark difference in unemployment rates for those with 4 year degrees + vs. those without during the most recent recession.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm Bureau of Labor for 2013 (other years are available)
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=561 National Center for Ed. Stats

I totally agree with you on seeing strengthened high school curriculums around the country; but that takes $$ too and so many places won't vote to pay for it.

@T.H.O.U.: california is making major headway into this. They have a new program called transfer model curriculum it is a combination of community college and the csu system to create the requirements of courses to transfer. Once the community college aligns and is approved students graduating with these transfer degrees are guaranteed to go in at the junior level in their field with no other pre requisites. This is only guaranteed to the csus but it ramps up the community college curriculum which makes them more accepted at more places. It is a fantastic opportunity. Because I agree with you on cost savings, it doesn't make sense to spend 3 years at the community college (even free) if you still pay for 3 or 4 years at the university level.

@brownie: Yes, FL has been working on something very similar for many years:

http://www.fldoe.org/policy/articulation

http://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/5421/urlt/0078406-astobaccalaureate_agreemnts.pdf

@MrsKoala: my DH and I were just discussing this last night. If the state cuts go through as expected the program he graduated from may not exist in 3 years.