....talk to me.
This kid is gonna be the death of me.
....talk to me.
This kid is gonna be the death of me.
pineapple / 12802 posts
I was getting up every hour. No cry sleep solutions didn't work for us at all. It was reeeeeeally hard to sleep train but I'm so thankful that we did. I was a miserable mess and didn't even want to be around L. Now I can't wait to get him up from naps.
papaya / 10473 posts
@.twist.: What method did you end up doing? NCSS worked brilliantly for us for a while, and now it just pisses him off. I stoppped counting wake ups last night because we were up more than we were down and it just all blurred together.
pear / 1563 posts
Hugs. We may be in the same boat with the sleep training if she ever kicks this cough and cold.
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
We were getting up every 20mins-1.5....I couldn't handle it anymore. I was crying so much. Pretty much hated my life and every night regretted having her, which made me cry more. DH and I were fighting from exhaustion. DH finally made me let her CIO. And it worked, I thought for sure that it wouldn't on her.
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
I didn't want to and it got to the point after hourly wakeups where I tried CIO. I did the 3, 5 min checks or whatever. It was a big. fat. fail.
Sleep training just doesn't work for her, at all. I almost wished it did (in that moment) because I was so desperate! I tried it all, to be honest. Except "extinction" ...I could not bring myself to do that.
She ended up starting to sleep better on her own, and started STTN (save teething, shots or sick) around 11 months. I was so glad, because obviously I didn't have any other options but to wait, lol.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@grizz: I don't think you're going to like it, haha. We did extinction method. However, if I did it over again I would do it slightly different than how I did. BUT, I sleep trained early on, whereas C is a bit older and might benefit, or need, the real full on method. I think it's just a mama judgement call. What you're comfortable with.
So, basically, you do bedtime routine, put them in bed, and leave them there until morning. Which sounds pretty harsh.
If I did it again, I would do something like:
Bedtime routine - bed.
Any wake up before 12pm, let cry.
Wake up around 12 - 1am, feed.
Any wake up between 1 - 4, let cry.
Wake up around 4 - 5pm, feed.
Wake up between 5 - 7, let cry.
Obviously adjust it to C's "hungry" times. It's definitely not a method for everyone, but it worked really well for us! (Most of the time, we still have bad nights, but we have more good than bad).
If you're interested I'll tell you more!
papaya / 10473 posts
@Smurfette: Exact same situation here. I'm to the point where I think sleep training will be less stressful than fighting with DH every night about what to do with him.
@sorrycharlie: Nooooooo! I need this to work! hahaha
@.twist.: That's the tricky part. I'm not sure which times he's hungry, and which times he's just waking up. Did it work for you guys? How is he sleeping now?
cantaloupe / 6017 posts
I was up every 90 minutes for two months straight, plus she wouldn't sleep alone so I was going to bed at 7:00. I was exhausted and cranky during the day because I was spending every second of my life attached to her.
We decided what our "bottom line" was. In our case, I needed her to put herself to sleep so that I could have some alone time in the evenings. That HAD to happen or else my mental health and my marriage were going to suffer.
We did our bedtime routine, I nursed her, out her in the co sleeper and walked out. My husband went in and laid next to her. He occasionally sushed/patted, but after 45 minutes she put herself to sleep. She never became very upset, mostly just whined and fussed. We had both agreed that if she got too upset he'd pick her up, but he never had to.
I spent most of the first night in the shower, so I didn't hear her.
Second night I was in there with her. Took 20 minutes. The third night (I think) she just stayed asleep after I nursed her and while I transferred her to the cosleeper.
After doing this for a week, we decided to try changing it so that nursing wasnt the last thing before bed. We nursed first, then went on with the rest of the routine about 10 minutes. She fussed but never was extremely upset he first night for maybe 15 minutes, tops
So now we can put her in the crib awake, and she puts herself to sleep without assistance. It started working at naps, too.
She sleeps from 7 to 10 by herself, then comes to bed with us. She is usually up one or two times between 10 and 5, and then snoozes, waking more frequently and nursing until 7:30 or 8.
So it's not perfect, but it's tolerable. I know that if we wanted her to sleep through the night we would need to move her to another room and we aren't ready for that yet.
I read a quote on a sleep site: "everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face." Before I had her, I was against any CIO. On the other side, I'm a little frustrated with myself and all the stuff I read about it being "traumatic." Granted, we did it a little differently, and it worked really well. It was a good time for her (6 months). But it was NOT traumatic. And to even compare it to actual trauma is just offensive. I wish I hadn't felt so guilty about doing it at first, because there was no reason to feel guilty. It was a great decision for us. She is better rested, and able to put herself to sleep. I'm better rested and more able to play with her and be patient during the day. My husband and I get to eat dinner, watch a movie, cuddle, whatever. It's changed our whole lifestyle and made parenting feel so much more manageablE.
squash / 13764 posts
We tried at 5 months and I couldn't handle it. We tried again at 6.5 months when he was up like 5x a night and I was desperate--I was doing all wakeup a and having to nurse at each.
The final straw tho was when I was that the wakeup a were affecting him--he was cranky and unhappy from being up so much at night. So then I decided I needed to bite the bullet. We did CIO with checks (feber). Not a cure all--he still had 1 wakeup to eat, and then e regressed at 9 months and sleep was not great from 9-12 months. But it was life changing at that time. I had literally been dreading each evening and night before we sleep trained.
papaya / 10473 posts
We are to the point that I broke down crying at our ped appointment, and he told me that it would be healthier to sleep train than to remain on this continuum and resent my LO, all of us stay exhausted, end up divorced, or all of the above. I'm totally not kidding. He referred to it as "disordered sleep", and he is the most hippie crunchy homebirth loving ped of all times.
Now I'm listening.
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
@grizz: lol you may be luckier than I was! I will say, she's never had an issue putting herself to bed. I nursed her before bed to top her off and in the early days, put her down asleep. but we never had to sleep train for her to be able to be put down awake. it got 100 times easier, too, when I started letting her have a blanket..she'd snuggle up and pass out! our troubles were when she woke 80 times a night, the only thing that worked was nursing for the most part..sometimes I could (or DH could) rock her with her blanket and pacifier, but not always. I never understood the difference - people would say, "she needs to learn to SELF SOOTHE!" and I was like, uh, she puts herself to bed! she knows how! she just doesn't WANT to I guess? lol. stubborn child.
squash / 13764 posts
@Silva: yes. I think no one WANtS to sleep train, but desperate times call for desperate measures, and sometimes it is the best thing you can do
papaya / 10473 posts
@Silva: Your post made me cry because it was exactly what I needed to read right now.
honeydew / 7586 posts
@grizz: I did CIO this week for B's 12-1 feed. It may be a fluke, but it only took us one night. That one night was hard; he cried a full hour and I cried along with him. I was so upset I couldn't even go back to bed that night. However, the past 3 nights he has slept from 7-5:30 without any wakings. I feed him at 5:30 and then he goes back to bed for an hour or two.
@.twist.: What if he refuses to oh back to bed in his crib after the 5 am feeding? Do you let him cry until 7?
pineapple / 12802 posts
@grizz: well, what is the longest period he's slept?
We recently had a bad week, but I think L was doing some growing/developing. Last night was closer to what I've been getting used to. We did bedtime routine. He went down (and he goes down without a fuss 9/10 times!), slept from 7 - midnight. I got up and fed him, put him back down and he pretty much fell asleep instantly (again, does that 9/10 times). And woke up at 5:30ish, but laid there for half hour before making a peep! I got up with him, fed him, changed him, made myself tea. Put him down again at 6:30 and woke him up at 7:30 so we don't f up our nap schedule!
coconut / 8498 posts
It sucked, but it was a good decision in the end. We figured out that LO would get more mad at 3-5 minute checks, so we would let her go 10-20 minutes. 10 if she was fighting mad, 20 if she was just whining. Except for once or twice, she was asleep working 10 minutes. I cried the entire time.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@rahlyrah: I would yes. Usually it only takes him 10 mins and he's asleep again. But it doesn't happen often. If he for whatever reason is up early that day (like today) I will get up at 6.
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@grizz: I totally agree. DH and I couldn't keep fighting over what to do to get her to sleep. R is a MUCH happier baby now that she STTN. She was just tired and cranky all the time. Plus then we got her sleep trained, I felt ok leaving her at home with my parents while DH and I could go out on a date. Which was MUCH needed.
We decided that anytime she woke up before 2, we let her cry. After 2 I would go in and feed her, and immediately put her back in the crib. We were having to hold her till she fell asleep and then hold her another 10-20 mins before transferring to the crib. Within in 3 night she was doing great. STTN some nights, otherwise sleeping till 4 or 5 to eat. Then back to sleep. Then teething hit, and the 4 or 5 kept getting earlier and earlier, and next thing we were back to 2 or 3 wake ups a night.
At her 6 month appointment, the pedi said to let her CIO. She didn't need to eat anymore over night, especially since we knew she could do it. Three nights later she has been STTN since.
If you do CIO, give your DH the monitor. Once he wakes up, have him turn the monitor off, and then just keep checking till he goes back to sleep. Once he is asleep, turn the monitor back on. This worked for us. DH could handle it better then me.
pomelo / 5720 posts
We tried everything, even CIO but LO was not a good candidate for this so we ended up just dealing with it until he STTN on his own at 9 mos. It was brutal but I don't think anything aside from time would have worked for him.
cantaloupe / 6017 posts
@grizz: I'm sorry it's tough. I really think you have to just do what's best for your baby. I finally realized dr. Sears doesn't have my kid or my life. And so what works for him isn't going to work for me. I am a better mama to my kid because I sleep trained her. I play more, I'm not crying all the time, my marriage is more stable.
Come up with a plan that you are comfortable with. Ours wasn't from a book, we just decided what felt okay to us. Like I said, we were most focused on getting her to fall asleep alone at night. It did help reduce other night waking so but that wasn't our initial goal. We decided to do it in phases, a sort of weaning down. Plan the "what ifs" so in the moment you aren't making panicked decisions. And be gentle with yourself! That sweet baby is so well attached, and knows you love him. He might get frustrated because he has to make some changes, but new things are always tough.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@Smurfette: ditto to everything! L is SO much happier now. And I feel 90% less mental! It took 3 nights, each night got easier. Seriously made a world of difference.
papaya / 10473 posts
@.twist.: He slept for 5 hours straight a few times way back at the beginning of August. A couple of times were close to 6 I think. Since then, his max has been like 3 hours, maybe 4.
@Smurfette: @Silva: Exactly this. Our house will be much happier when everyone is getting some sleep! We're all tired, grouchy, and crazy right now.
pomegranate / 3053 posts
How old is your LO? Age sometimes has a lot to do with it. Also, do you have a routine and does everyone in the household follow it as well? These LOs LOVE routine. At least my two boys did. You detour just a teeny tiny bit it throws them off. Also, sometimes you just have to wait it out and try again another time if it's just not working for both of you right now. I know it's easier said than done, but every baby is different and what some of the books say to train around 6 months or whatever may work for most babies but may not for some. I sleep trained my oldest around 5.5 months and my youngest around the same time, but he was easier with sleep. Only b/c he was preparing me for the multiple tantrums that he was throwing a few months back that made me want to pull every single strand of my hair out. My boys' pediatrician just told me not to let them cry for more than an hour but my max limit was 30 minutes and it only happened a few times and once for 45 minutes. I remember average was around 15-20 minutes before they self soothed to sleep. I sat next to him where he couldn't see me the entire time. It was brutal but I got it done. My MIL always commented every time I let my boys cry but I have two great sleepers so it was all worth the tears.
cantaloupe / 6017 posts
@grizz: Any improvement will help significantly. Our LO still has some bad nights, but more often than not its one or two wake ups and I feel so much better.
This is kind of off topic (or more about me, but maybe it will help you come to peace with whatever decision you make). In prenatal yoga class one day, my teacher described labor as a time when you are forced to truly "meet yourself." I went into it totally against pain meds, and believed I would feel guilty if I did have some. After 50 hours of back labor (posterior baby) I had this moment where I was like "what am I doing? I'm avoiding intervention because I'm worried what my mom and my BFF and all these other people who didn't have pain meds are going to think about me." It sucked to realize that I was clinging to this plan because I wanted to hold true to some "identity" I had for myself. In that moment I realized that what I needed was rest, a break, and probably some medical assistance. After the interventions we chose, things progressed very quickly. It was absolutely the right choice for me and for my baby (who ended up needing to come out quickly, anyway).
Deciding to sleep train was a similarly hard choice for me. I did have some concerns about it being "traumatic" or whatever- although I cognitively had read all the studies and knew that she was old enough to handle it, and that we were doing a method that was less intense. But there was definitely a part of me (and I am ashamed to admit this) that was worried about "what people would think." Getting over that felt great. Because now I know I made the right choice for me, my family, and my baby. And to me, knowing that I can make instinctual choices for our individual situation rather than following some arbitrarily defined list of "attachment parenting" makes me feel like I am really in touch (and hey, what do you know, attached!) to my kid.
I'm happy to chat if you need help coming up with a plan. I feel like I read ALL the sleep things on the internet for a while. If our "method" is intriguing to you, I think its called "parent attended cry it out" or something like that in some places. We loaded up our iPods and just stayed with her. My friend said there is a similar method where you move further and further away from them. Basically we were just "trading down" sleep associations, which is something they talk about on Isis.
pineapple / 12802 posts
@grizz: then I would definitely say he can go until at least 12 or 1 without a feed. Then again for 4 or 5. He can definitely go 5 to 6 hours without a feed. So I would base your night schedule on that.
Eta: even though I still get up with L 2 times a night, I don't mind because I can put him down and he will go to sleep on his own. Which makes my wake up time short. It made the biggest difference when I didn't have to hold him until he fell asleep and then longer to make sure he didn't wake up.
papaya / 10473 posts
@erwoo: He's almost 7 months. We have a bedtime routine, but our day routine is never the same due to my job and my husband's job - he's with me for a full day some days, with DH all day some days, and has a nanny for 3-4 hours in the afternoon some days.
pomegranate / 3053 posts
@grizz: That might be part of the problem, unfortunately. When you have three different people doing naps/sleep time and it's not consistent it totally throws them off. I would come up with a really easy sleep routine (bottle, book or song, and then say the same words when you put him in the crib like I tell my boys "happy nappi/good night and I love you") that's the same for both nap and bed time and try to have everyone stick with it and see how it goes. My youngest is 21 months and still has a little trouble wanting my husband to put him down for naps or bed time but once he starts up my routine he settles down and goes with it. He never used to believe me but now does.
I hope that helps and that you can find something that will help him settle into a good nap/sleep routine. Sleep is probably the next tough thing next to breast feeding, I think! Have you tried a white noise machine? Some moms swear on it. I have one but only use it when we travel and it does help.
honeydew / 7303 posts
I really didn't want to but at 11.5 months her wake ups were unbearable. She would wake 4-5 times and be up for hours at a time. We were both cranky. She didn't know how to put herself to sleep, so we gave in. We got a solid routine, put her down. She cried for 20 mins the 1st night, 8 the second, and 3 the third and that was that. She sttn from night one. It was worth it for both of us.
honeydew / 7687 posts
@grizz: so bummed NCSS isn't working for you any more! I would totally do @silva s method if I were in your shoes - I am sure everyone will be happier once you're getting more sleep. That sound like enough to drive anyone insane, especially when you're working out of the house. He is old enough to handle it, IMO!
hostess / papaya / 10219 posts
He had back to back to back ear infections and his sleep went to crap. We swore we'd never sleep train but at 9.5 months, he was getting up every hour or two and then stopped going back in his crib after wakeups. We haven't slept more than 2 hours at a time in ages. We finally did a sleep consult and came up with a plan. It is a modified CIO with soothing because straight CIO didn't work for ours. He screamed forever. But this worked last night (our first night). It took him 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep but then he slept through the night for the first time since he was 3 1/2 months old.
kiwi / 548 posts
Did anyone have success with eliminating night wakings for a LO who cries over a hour at each waking? My LO has no problems putting herself to sleep at night-time, takes great naps, but is up least 2x a night. She is 9 months and we have tried to sleep train on multiple occasions to deal with night wakings, but whatever "limit" we set, she gets to it and we end up giving up after 3 or 4 nights of her crying for over an hour and me going in to feed her. She is very, very active and I don't think that she eats that much during daytime nursing sessions (when she takes a bottle she only takes about 3 oz and you have to feed her in a dark room with white noise or she won't even take the bottle at all) so maybe she is just hungry? I would like to get some more sleep, but I really don't know if she is there yet, though she should be!
pomegranate / 3577 posts
@grizz: Our pedi gave us a kick in the butt about E's sleep too. As a result, we let him fuss at his 1am wake-up...two nights later, he slept straight through it. I feed him around 3 or 4 AM, because our ped said it was reasonable for him to sleep 7 to 8 hours in a row. If he had cried, I would have run in there, but he surprised me by only fussing. Of course I didn't get any more sleep, because I stared at the monitor! But, I would not have had the strength to do it had we not moved him to his own room. As much as I hated to do it, at 6 1/2 months, it was time for him to sleep longer than the 5 hours, then up and down continually through the rest of the night we had been doing. I handle sleep deprivation pretty well, but DH does not.
I sincerely hope you have the same luck. We have not been as good with naps, but we (and our pedi) are less concerned with daytime sleep as long as our night sleep lengthens and improves. It's a process. I've already done a lot of things I never thought I'd do, on both sides of the proverbial fence... I finally felt like it was okay to try when my friend, who is a crunchy mama and a pediatrician, did CIO with her youngest. Like @silva:, thankfully, making the decision was the hardest part.
pomegranate / 3204 posts
I never wanted to sleep train, I never thought I would or would need to. I figured I would just deal with the wake-ups because I was not going to let my baby cry. I finally hit a breaking point though, where something had to be done, and I knew we had to sleep train.
I dreaded it, and kept putting it off every month. We were co-sleeping since it was the only way DS would sleep, but still his wake-ups were unbearable, waking every 1.5 hour and it would take a bottle and a lot of rocking for him to go back down, sometimes it would take up to an hour to get him back to sleep only for him to wake up again.
I was tired, cranky, resented my LO, fighting and arguing with DH. I had finally had enough at 11 months. The first night was really hard but I kept telling myself that he needs this, he needs to learn to be able to put himself to sleep. We would do the 5/10 minute checks but it just upset him more, so we ended up doing extinction. We did say we would allow one middle of the night feeding, so if he woke up between 1 and 3 we would feed him and put him back in crib. But once he knew he how to put himself to sleep, he dropped the middle of the night feeding. I would say it took us 6 nights to sleep train and we did experience a little regression between day 3 and 4 but everyone is different. Sleep training has made a huge difference for us. I can now relax after DS goes to bed, I can have me time, DH and I can spend time together, we have our bed back and we get to sleep through the night for the most part. We still have setbacks every once in a while and he is still a really bad napper.
papaya / 10473 posts
@Silva: Yes, I would love to talk to you more about it! I had the same feelings at my birth too. Posterior baby, back labor from hell for 32 hours... but I put off and put off my epidural because I was scared of disappointing my friend who was my doula. Stupid. I think I read wayyyyyy too much one-sided Sears type stuff up til now, and its just piling on the guilt...When what we actually need is some rest. All of us.
@scg00387: I started counting the pick up, put downs last night (because I apparently hate myself) and I got to 100 before I gave up counting. We PUPD for almost three hours last night. He now starts screaming the second he touches the sheet, like I'm putting him in hot lava or something.
I'm at such a loss.
honeydew / 7687 posts
@grizz: yikes. Sounds like torture for all! Sounds like time to try something new, mama
Eta are you Pu right when he squeaks at the sheets? Once Lo was older I would often walk out and to the kitchen before I went back in. It's rare that he cries but when he does, he will settle if I leave for a minute (literally).
papaya / 10473 posts
@scg00387: I've been picking him up immediately since he escalates so much. I'm willing to give NCSS a little more time, and try waiting a minute before picking him up.
honeydew / 7687 posts
@grizz: that's the only thing I can think of, I will say we had a night that he would not let me put him down without throwing a fit and I was sick, he screamed at me in his crib while I sat next to it and sang. It wasn't fun but I don't regret it! He fell asleep after 25 minutes and slept like normal (which was good). Seriously though don't torture yourself in the name of AP (please!).
apricot / 461 posts
I was super against doing sleep training with my LO (I just felt it wasn't right for him or me), but it became necessary, so we started at 6 months. It was brutal for me, but went okay for a few weeks. Then he regressed due to teething. We ended up going back to cosleeping and re-starting sleep training at 7 months. Again, it went okay for a couple weeks and then he started regressing again for no apparent reason. After that I was done. I just realized it wasn't right for us, two months was enough! I wish it had worked though..
Someone gave me good advice before we started and I was considering doing it - don't do it unless you are 100% committed to it. Otherwise, you won't be able to get through it and be completely consistent.
Good luck!!
cherry / 210 posts
@grizz: We were in this position when LO was 5-7 months. The idea of CIO broke my heart. We tried NCSS with no success. "The Sleep Lady" method from the book was a great compromise for us and worth a look. Her plan is modified CIO where you sit next to the crib and can pat and shhh... while they are crying. Then after 2 nights you move to the middle of the room and so on.... The first night took about 45 minutes of crying, but I was there the whole time. Each night got easier and we finally got him going to bed on his on and only waking up twice to nurse by 7 months. By 9 months I decided that it was time to try to STTN and with minimal crying and a little bit of cuddling we were STTN in a few weeks.
What I really want to say is that you are not alone. And obviously by all the responses you can see that. I have blacked out those months where LO was up every 30 minutes at night. I was extremely resentful, depressed, and at the lowest point I've ever experienced. Not only that, I felt so much guilt for feeling that way. You are not alone! But finally deciding to sleep train, even if it meant a hard week was the best decision I have made so far.
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