Hellobee Boards

Massively. I'm part of a Japanese mothers group. No one sleep trains and they are all a bit bemused by it.

They also all co-sleep, baby wear and breastfed past one but aren't remotely crunchy. It's just the norm there.

I find them Japanese people on general to be more "self sacrificing" then westerners, so I think that ties into it.

Also a lot of my European friends have basically sleep trained but not in the "I'm going to read books and copious blog entries about all forms of sleep training to know I'm being the best possible mother ever before embarking on this highly critical task" more of a, he seems old enough ill just let him cry a bit...

I.e. I've never heard discussions of the relative merits of Ferber v weisslbub (or whatever his name is)

@sea_bass: I'm not crunchy and I do all that. my mom did that stuff too so maybe it's cultural for me as well.

@Mae: re read your post. You seem to have misunderstood my self sacrificing comment. I wasn't even particularly meaning Japanese mothers. It's a widely documented sociological trait of the Japanese people, to my knowledge. I was more thinking out loud. Also women's well being/sleep is probably less valued in the household than in the "west".

Oh and where I live.. Everyone sleep trains and schedules from the newborn stage. EVERYONE. Most often via employing someone to do it for them.

So, I keep my crunchy habits on the sly...
@MrsMccarthy

@Mrs. Chipmunk: I wouldn't strictly agree. In wealthy areas where there are a lot of SAHMs infants typically seem to be sleep trained. Not because mothers are necessarily going back to work but because their well being is valued. By themselves and by others. It's perfectly acceptable to sleep train weather you're going back to work or not where I am.

But I'm splitting hairs. That value on women's well being has certainly come about since more women are working outside of the home.

I don't know, my husband is not American and although his family hadn't heard of the term "cry it out" or Ferber, his parents visited for a month and said they could teach my baby to sleep through the night.

Their method was basically the shush pat method but with constant paci reinsertions. It didn't work on my LO, but I guess it worked on their kids.

They are south Asian.

I would call it sleep training but they definitely don't have books and Internet forums devoted to doing it.

I'm Korean and I think the whole co-sleeping thing happened more often in the past in my culture naturally as a function of there just not being enough room in the home to do anything else. Multiple generations could live under the same roof.

Space is a premium in Asian homes and even in middle class families today, siblings still share rooms all the time. My relatives in Korea are relatively well off and they mostly live in 1,000-1,200 sq. foot, 2 bedroom apartments as a family of 4. If you have elderly folks living with your or if you have a school aged child that need to go to school living in that small of a space, CIO just doesn't work and room-sharing with the parents becomes the norm.

Personally, I room-shared with my parents as a baby in Korea because they had a single room at my grandparents house to live in. But I didn't have a family bed - I had my own crib. Because my Dad had to go to work in the morning, CIO wasn't really an option. And breastfeeding and babywearing were seen as normal because it was cheaper, my mom was a SAHM, and my mom needed to be able to do chores during the day. So either she or my grandmother would strap me on and go about their day.

Hubby's family is from Peru. No one sleep trained. They mostly all co-bed as well. Half of the family is very well off, and when the Moms decided to stop co-sleeping, a lot of times they had nanny's who would.

I was born in Taiwan ( didn't come here until I was one) and I was sleep trained! And my mom gave me formula! And I don't think she ever wore me. this was early 80s.

Isn't most everything

@Zbug: Can I hug you (once I'm done making sure you're not hanging around in my head)?

@Zbug: http://www.amazon.com/Eskimos-Keep-Their-Babies-Warm/dp/156512958X I mentioned in a past thread that I think this book is the only "must read" for preggos. it basically says exactly what you said, with interesting anecdotes and qualitative research.

Specific to what you said, I also think people tend to forget that every baby/toddler/child is a tiny person, with their own personality and quirks. The threads on "what would you do different" where person A swears up and down they won't nurse to sleep, or do X Y or Z frustrate me a little because when I was pregnant, I read them fervently like they had all the knowledge. If that makes any sense!

@Mrs. Chipmunk: I agree.

I think sleep training is definitely a "western" thing... and also depends on when you're going back to work and need to be well rested etc. I read a lot about sleep training here on HB but among my friends and another message board I follow, sleep training is super rare. But we live in Canada and have a year of mat leave, so I think MOTN wakeups aren't as big a deal when you're not going to work the next day.

@Zbug: ugh I so agree! There are no rules. If nursing to sleep is fine with you then it won't harm your baby. If its not then that's good too. I have seen good outcomes from both approaches.

I go to a parent baby class at the hospital, and the instructors are very much AAP-guideline based and follow what your heart tells you is right. I joined another mom group at the 0-3 month mark, and I was really surprised the total shift in thinking with those moms that weren't connected with my hospital groups - one example was they were already doing cry it out at less than 3 months. I'm not saying cry it out is wrong by any means, (perhaps it's more appropriate/effective after 3 months) but it was interesting to see how the parenting styles differed so much. The hospital group isn't "crunchy" by any means, but I would say they lean more toward the attachment parenting approach and the other group I joined was the complete opposite.

There was a tiny thread a few days ago about vampire babies, and one poster mentioned her LO's bedtime was around 1-1:30am.....until she had to go back to work. CIO seems to be a necessary route to go when going back to work, and @SEA_BASS I totally agree that it goes hand in hand with placing a higher value on women and their well-being - but so too would dad waking up in the middle of the night to help. In a lot of situations both parents work 8 hour shifts the next day, but the night wake ups are often left to mom. Perhaps moms are evolutionarily able to cope with it better than men, though

@Mamaof2: When he's 13 you should totally remind him of that :P.

IDK, some stuff is cultural, some is individual. A good friend of mine is Colombian and she sleep trained her babies with increasing amounts of CIO (5 mins, 7 mins, etc.) Not because she read it in a book, but because that's what felt right to her. Meanwhile I'm caucasian and my mom rocked my brother and I to sleep for as long as we needed it. *shrugs*

If necessary I will sleep train DS because I need sleep and I need to be able to function at work to help support us, to be able to drive without worrying that I'm a hazard to others. But of course if he magically sleeps through the night without needing training, that would be preferable :D.

@gingerbebe: 100% agree and come from the same background/upbringing.

I'm in the UK and none of my friends irl have sleep trained by CIO--they have all tried gentle methods or are WIO. I feel like the odd one out.