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<< but bullies always have friends. The situation you are describing just begs for screen shots, wall posts, and general cliqueyness. The blocking idea is good in theory, but I fear the reality will actually make the situation worse. >>
@septca: If that happens, then we'd definitely have to rethink things as well. Two quick thoughts though.
1) If someone is being bullied and had to choose between a nasty comment and someone screenshotting their post... it seems to me that most people would choose the screenshot. Especially because nobody in their right mind would use this feature for privacy purposes...
2) We heard similar concerns around cliques forming when we launched Gold, and luckily so far that hasn't been a serious issue. We'll definitely keep an eye out for that stuff here though!
<< I wonder of just implanting mute as a trial might be possible. >>
@septca: Yah we'd probably start with a mute threads feature, and ease into things from there...
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I agree mute, not block. Muting is similar to hiding boards and is a simple extension.
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I personally think that this is going to accomplish very little. I'm surprised a site that boasts itself on a mature atmosphere would implement this.
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@BakerBee: yes! This is what I'm wondering.
-- How do you decide who is truly bullying vs. having a personality clash? --
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<< I also think that what one Bee might view as bullying, others might view as someone finally saying what others are too scared to say. How do you decide who is truly bullying vs. having a personality clash? >>
@BakerBee: Great point, and definitely something we'll have to keep an eye out for.
We'd definitely start with a Mute Threads feature first, and then ease into it... as a few people have mentioned, the Block Your Threads feature is trickier on a number of levels.
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Wow. You think you TTC much when your phone autocorrects "implement" to "implant"? Sorry @mrbee!!
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@Mrs Green Grass: agree. Mute only.
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@septca: All good, figured you were on your phone! And thanks for the feedback... totally agree that we should phase this stuff, so that mute comes first and we ease into things as we see how it's going.
ETA: Picking up the kids from school now... be back later!
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I think it's worth a try and see how it works out as long as everyone understands that it is not a perfect system. I am just sad that bullying happens here too
But I guess this is the real world..
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I don’t remember any posters being “driven away” from here and don’t really see actual bullying going on, but maybe my tolerance for/definition of bullying is higher than other users. I have seen very mutual antagonism between parties, followed by complaints about being “picked on” and users leaving, which is very different from being driven away.
I think on the whole HB as a community bends over backwards to be nice and deliver opinions in a nice way and that it’s a natural part of life that some personalities will clash or people will have different filter levels. Happens online, at work, in families, in circles of friends; everywhere.
I don’t have a strong opinion on either feature; I think muting would be more useful than blocking. I just don’t really see an actual need for either feature.
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Mute's a great idea but I'm meh on blocking for the reasons people above me have listed.
I understand that HB has a pretty hands-off policy when it comes to moderation, and I really appreciate that and think it allows conversation to develop very naturally. It's what makes this such a fantastic board. However, I have to wonder why you wouldn't speak up to a specific user if it seemed like they were constantly targeting another user.
We all have our bad days and occasional snarky moments - we're human. But if it seems to be a reoccurring issue, I just don't know why it isn't pointed out to that particular user and addressed. Especially with how infrequently it happens on HB! (And I definitely DO think it happens -- there are some posters, though not many, who seem to thrive on jumping down a few posters' throats and that makes me sad because I don't think it's really ever been called for at all.)
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@yoursilverlining: I do remember one poster who, I think, left because of people.
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I'm another one that's oblivious to the bullying. I do however see a lot of snarky comments about a select few posters on a site that shall remain nameless, so maybe that's tied in together.
Personally, I feel like if a small amount of people are being bullies and causing problems, it would be better to deal with them directly than spend time and money implementing a new feature. If you don't want to get into banning, have you thought about sending them a message and asking that they not harass a particular poster?
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@MamaMoose: +1
I see people having drama on the boards from time to time, but I just kind of avoid that. I don't have enough free time to be upset about what someone on the internet does or does not agree with that I'm doing. I'm an adult. I've gained a few really good friends from HB but 99% of you I'll never meet IRL (even if I want to!) and I'm a grown up. If someone doesn't like me, I don't talk to them. I guess I wouldn't feel the need for something like this but I already do what these features would provide. If I don't have anything productive to add, I don't respond.
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<< Personally, I feel like if a small amount of people are being bullies and causing problems, it would be better to deal with them directly than spend time and money implementing a new feature. >>
@ShootingStar: we'd probably start with the mute thread feature first, to limit time and money. Then we'll reevaluate as we see how it goes. From a technical perspective, the two features build on each other so it makes sense to start with muting anyway.
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I don't think these things will actually address much. Blocking would be used to alienate bullied people more I think. It is an extreme implementation of choosing not to see certain boards.
I can envision people blocking me just because they don't like me. Not because I have done something to them.
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@MamaMoose: totally agree with you! I feel like we are all adults here and it's not fair for HB to have to invest time and money into features like this. Personally if I had a problem with someone or their thread I would just avoid it! I wouldn't need a button or anything to make me feel better and safer. But then again I'm pretty easy going and have never felt threatened or attacked.
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Gosh I feel like I'm on HB a lot and I don't notice bullying. Maybe my tolerance is also higher...personally I don't think I'd use either feature but I think they're a good idea. I definitely remember times on wb where it seemed like every thread was about who was banned and why and picking apart mod decisions and that gets pretty petty and boring IMO. My gut instinct prefers muting to blocking because I feel blocking might change the tone of the site. I'm imagining someone being blocked by a few super posters and getting no responses or more people solely posting on gold. That would drive me away. I like HB but I'd never get gold.
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@mrbee: have these people been privately warned/cautioned? I agree that dealing with them directly would be best. Also, FWIW, I like the muting feature but I don't think that protects those who are being bullied. - I feel it caters to the bully so they aren't bothered ...
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i also agree with dealing with the bullying directly rather than implement (what sounds like) an expensive feature. i personally wouldn't use either feature as even when i disagree with someone on one thing, i agree with their opinion on another.
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I wouldn't use this. Part of life is the good, the bad and the ugly. I generally skip over posts if I think they're getting too heated, which I haven't noticed much of. Then again, I could be missing them completely.
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<<Say that you find that someone is posting threads that are.... well, let's just say you feel that reading their posts is not a good use of your time.>>
@mr. bee: If I don't feel like reading someone's post is a good use of my time, I just don't read it! I do pay attention to the poster, not just the topic. A mute button just doesn't feel necessary to me. I guess if someone gets aggravated by the mere sight of someone's name, it will be useful.
I echo the concerns of many others regarding the blocking feature. The idea of it makes me wrinkle my nose.
@birdofafeather: I agree!
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I really appreciate your thought on this! Here is my question: do you think these features would help to address the shift in tone? I feel like there are times I can feel it, though I can't put my finger on why exactly I say that. I think mute could be useful for a number of reasons, but I dont know that I think it would do a lot to address a tone issue at its core.
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@Ginabean3: your point about investing resources is great. If adding these features would increase the cost of gold I would absolutely be against it.
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@LovelyPlum: I feel like there's a small group responsible for 90% of it.
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@MamaMoose: Totally agree with you. I don't think it adds to my "gold experience" so I wouldn't want the cost of membership to go up.
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@MamaMoose: yikes. I would absolutely not want these features if it increased the Gold expense. No thank you. Good point.
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@MamaMoose: Eeek, I would not be up for that either!
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Just a few minutes before dinner, so real quick:
* We'll consider contacting the people who have been engaged in bullying behavior. What they're doing is not explicitly against out community policy though, so it's tricky stuff. We'll review the threads and think about it some more!
* None of this will affect the price of gold! This feature is more about giving control to users, so that the site is more self-governing and requires less manual moderation. Ever year, Bee and I take the kids to visit my family overseas for a few weeks and the site is a huge source of stress for us then. So anything that makes the site easier to run is really helpful!
<< Here is my question: do you think these features would help to address the shift in tone? I feel like there are times I can feel it, though I can't put my finger on why exactly I say that. I think mute could be useful for a number of reasons, but I dont know that I think it would do a lot to address a tone issue at its core. >>
@LovelyPlum: If you figure it out, drop me a line! For now, I do think that a mute threads feature will help people who don't have as much self-control.
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@mrbee: I am not a particularly active poster so my points may be irrelevant. However, I would think..
I don't think there is enough content on HB to warrant reducing delivered content to users automatically. I think opting out of content should be thread specific.
For example if someone has been on a thread and its getting a bit much for them, they could have the option to "hide thread" and it would no longer appear for them. Perfect, as they would essentially be protected from any ensuing drama on said thread.
As for blocking specific users and muting all content from specific users I just don't think there is enough content to make that feature work. I think it would make for a disjointed user experience as so many threads are about other threads etc.
These are also fairly big development undertakings. To my mind development efforts could be put towards something more dynamic and conversation building, rather than limiting.
On an entirely different note I find this site very, very friendly (sacrosanct, if I am honest!). I am probably far too straight talking and opinionated to post here regularly. Maybe I am missing something but it doesn't strike me as a hot bed of cyber bullying.
Best of luck with the next steps.
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@mrbee: To be completely honest, I feel like if the behaviour doesn't go against the community policy, it might need to be left alone. If it doesn't break any rules, then some of these things users might need to work it out themselves. They are, after all, adults.
I'm a very active user. I have not noticed any full on bullying. Disagreeing from time to time, yes. Frustration at certain users, yes. But nothing like the bullying I've seen in countless other forums.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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I think blocking would be preferable, to be honest. It's easy for me to ignore posts that bother me (though really I don't think there are any posters that I would have that reaction to).
There was a while when I feel like any post I posted I would get responses that were like "well, if you didn't want to hear my opinion, you shouldn't have put this on the internet." Which to me, felt like unnecessary bullying, although maybe it wouldn't have bothered others.
To me, that's what bothered me about the "tone" of the website. I think fundamentally the same rules of social etiquette should apply online as they do in person - you wouldn't tell a co-worker whatever you think about what they are wearing/feeding their child/doing with their job just because it was "out there!"
That's why I think blocking would be better. I don't have a problem when someone posts something I disagree with, but it does hurt when you post something and someone jumps all over it.
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@.twist.: I agree with you. I think the term bullying is being grossly overused in this thread. Someone disagreeing with you, even impolitely disagreeing, is not the same thing as bullying. I think it's cleaner to just let things work themselves out. If someone feels like HB is not a place where they fit in like they would want to, that's ok. We can't be everything to everybody. We can be cordial and be adults, but there will still be times when the majority of users will feel one way about something and someone else will feel another way. Hell, if I remember correctly you recently had someone say something pretty darn crappy to you so if you aren't for these features I'm not sure who would be.
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@jedeve: if someone in my life asked my opinion (which is essentially what a poster is doing when they start a thread) then yes, I would tell them honestly what I think. That's my personality online and in real life. I wouldn't give an unsolicited opinion, but I think starting a thread means you open yourself up to hearing people's responses and opinions, even if they don't agree with you.
ETA. That doesn't mean people should be assholes to you, just that it shouldn't be expected that they should refrain from posting just because they disagree.
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<< I think opting out of content should be thread specific. For example if someone has been on a thread and its getting a bit much for them, they could have the option to "hide thread" and it would no longer appear for them. Perfect, as they would essentially be protected from any ensuing drama on said thread. >>
@sea_bass: Ah sure, we spec'd out a Mute This Thread feature too. Have to do some backend work before we can build it though.
<< These are also fairly big development undertakings. >>
Preliminary indications are that it's not a big dev effort. The UI is the trickiest part.
<< I'm a very active user. I have not noticed any full on bullying. Disagreeing from time to time, yes. Frustration at certain users, yes. But nothing like the bullying I've seen in countless other forums. >>
@.twist.: Glad to hear it's better here than on other sites! We do see bullying though, unfortunately. Usually when people end up leaving, they don't make a lot of noise... they just contact me quietly and ask for a shut down.
<< To be completely honest, I feel like if the behaviour doesn't go against the community policy, it might need to be left alone. If it doesn't break any rules, then some of these things users might need to work it out themselves. They are, after all, adults. >>
@.twist.: Totally respect that others may not see the bullying or may feel differently about bullying in general, but if there's an easy fix, I'd like to try it! If it doesn't work, we can re-evaluate.
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@.twist.: @MamaMoose: I agree on the term bullying being over- and misused. Bullying is when someone repeatedly and on purpose hurts someone in order to gain power (well, that's what tell my students, anyway). I personally don't think that I would use either of these features, but I'm not a super active poster.
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I definitely feel like I have seen instances of bullying, so I can see where the blocking feature would be useful. I know of at least one person that I feel gets targeted both other users and every time they post, they get attacked, not only for what they are currently posting about but for previous things they are posting about. It's hard to watch sometimes.
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<< I think the term bullying is being grossly overused in this thread. Someone disagreeing with you, even impolitely disagreeing, is not the same thing as bullying. >>
@MamaMoose: Definitely agree that disagreeing (even impolitely) is not the same thing as bullying.
I'm focused here on genuine bullying though. The features I mentioned are geared more towards addressing bullying, than addressing rude or impolite comments.
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I agree with those that said we are all adults...on the Internet. I personally wouldn't use either feature,
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@meganmp: @MamaMoose: @.twist.: also agree on the word "bullying" being used when perhaps it shouldn't be. I see students picking on each other everyday. Bullying consists of long-term, focused actions to hurt someone else on purpose so I see that less often in school. There are major personality clashes here but I have difficulty thinking of a situation where one poster was clearly bullying another.
But I guess this is the real world..
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