I need some help bee's. I Never wanted to be a sleep training parent. Maybe somewhere in the back of my head I was convinced our little girl would never fall under that category. She's 6 and a half months now, and I always get compliments on how good she is. Just until recently I always helped her off to sleep by cuddling her in my arms while I kissed her and stroked her baby face. She would suck on her pacifier and within a few short minuets she would drift off to sleep. I was a co-sleeper with her up until 6 months. At 5 months we transitioned her into her crib for naps only. Once I knew she was comfortable with her new environment I would put her down to sleep in her crib for bedtime, until the first MOTN wake up. Then she would come to bed with me in the big bed. At 6 Months I started keeping her in her crib all night. She is exclusively breastfed and was down to two night wake ups. She would also average about 12hrs of sleep.
The problem was that I read a blog saying that I was doing more damage than good by cooing, cuddling in my arms and so forth until she fell asleep. This article said that more than likely she was waking up MOTN because the last thing she remembered was being held in my arms. She then wakes up in a different place and no mom there, so she calls out. It says that putting her in her crib awake teaches her to self sooth and fall asleep and stay asleep.
So I started last night with Ferber with checks.
At bedtime she babbled for 10 minuets and fell asleep with no crying.
She woke at 1:54am, I went into her room to feed her and she refused after she bit me. So I placed her in her crib, patted her gently and walked out. I started the timer and did the checks according to Ferber.
It took 1hr and 15 min and then she was out.
She woke up at 6:00am and I fed her, she went right back to sleep ( she's always gone right back to sleep after eating)
Finally she woke at 9:45 am.
She's had her First nap at 12:00pm I feed her and it was so sad cause she tried to snuggle into the corner of my arm. I know she would of just passed out, but then that would of contradicted what I was doing? so I but her in her crib awake. It took 20 minuets of crying with 3 checks and then she was out.
Am I doing this right?
I feel like a piece of shit, it breaks my heart to hear her cry.
How do I know when I no longer need to feed her at night?
I don't want to make her CIO if she's hungry. I've also read somewhere that babies past 6 months should be STTN and don't need to eat?
Talk to me bee's.
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Dude, we started Ferber last night, too. Hell on earth.
Did you want to get rid of the two wakeups? If they didn't bother you I wouldnt mess with CIO. If you're looking to drop them though, you could take that route I'd think! It sounds like the night went awesome for the most part, if you're trying to drop the 2:00 feed, you can shorten the amount of time you nurse each night until you've eliminated it. I've also heard if people going cold turkey though. Personally, my LO had always nursed as we basically coslept for 6 months, so I'm keeping 2 feeds for now.
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I would eventually like to get rid of the night feedings. I'm starting to think she's ............hell I don't know, some nights I hear her cry and then she's out cold within seconds. Then sometimes she wakes and really cry's and that the only thing I have to go off of that she's hungry. Or is she, maybe she just wants to be comforted? I can't be getting up all the time, I'm gonna have to go back to work and I NEED my sleep. I feel like it's been long enough, 6 and a half months of broken sleep already.
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ok first off....do YOU want to sleep train or are you only doing it because of some article? I highly encourage you to read this blog post: http://sweetmadeleine.ca/2013/10/14/here-are-some-lies-people-tell-you-about-infant-sleep/
second off- it sounds to me like she is a pretty good sleeper! 2 night feeds over a 12 hour period at 6 months old is very, very normal, and I wouldnt expect her to go 12 hours at that age. Even Weisbluth who wrote Healthy Sleep Healthy Child says it is normal to have up to 2 feeds until 9ish months.
There is nothing wrong with teaching your baby to self soothe- we sleep trained at 6.5 months but we had many, many wake-ups per night and it was a battle to get her to sleep at night. After we sleep trained, she was down to 1-2 wakeups a night to nurse. Then she slowly dropped those feeds and was basically night weaned around 11/12 months.
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@NovBaby1112: I want what's going to be best for her. I have been noticing the prior week that she was starting to wake up right after I put her down and cry until I picked her up and went through the whole cuddling kissing routine. That same week one night she did it for 3 hours! I was so OVER it. That's what made me start to think she needed sleep training. I read the article after when I was googling for solutions. I read on kellymom that breastfed babies will self wean when they are developmentally ready to do so. I always thought that that's what DD was gonna do.
Is it possible to sleep train for bedtime and naps but still do MOTN wake ups to fed? -
@NovBaby1112: LOL I read that same article this week!!!!
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@MamaPhoenix: ok, that makes sense....yea 3 hours of trying to get her down is alot! I would continue on with sleep training user Ferber's guidlines for bedtime and naps. For MOTN wakings- I would pick a time, say 5-6 hours after she goes down for the night, and not feed her before that. When we sleep trained, she went to bed around 7pm and I made the cut off time around 1am. You can just feed her and put her back down like you do at the beginning of the night. I think 2 night feeds at that age is very common- and I bet she will drop them on her own in time.
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@NovBaby1112: I believe she will too! It just sucks. I re-read that article and I get where she's coming from. She say's the best part of her day was when she nursed her LO to sleep in her arms. I feel the same way, I feel like my bonding time is being taken away. I really do like the time just before a nap or bedtime. I just don't want the three hours of constant soothing. I so confused. I just want us both to get good sleep and her not to hate me or it to ruin our bond.
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@MamaPhoenix: We started similarly - we used to bounce LO on an exercise ball until he fell asleep. One night it was taking an hour for him just to plain fall asleep. I finally got him in his crib and his eyes opened right back up and he took another hour to try to go down. I couldn't do it anymore. I decided to try CIO right then and there with the extinction method (checks only escalated his crying).
From everything you're saying, you're doing great! It was by far the hardest thing I've ever had to do. There were times when I had to go into the basement and put earphones in while DH stayed upstairs to make sure he was ok (we have a video monitor), b/c I couldn't stand to hear him cry. It will be like @ms.janedoe: said, hell on earth, but you will be so thankful once she's sleep trained. We've been putting LO down for nap and bed with zero crying since about 6 months, and he's 19 months now. It's wonderful. The month it took us to sleep train, was hell...hang in there!
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@2PeasinaPod: I have to ask......did it affect your relationship or bond? She's a mama's girl and I love it. I didn't have any affection from my mom going up and I craved it so bad. I wanted to make sure My Lo always felt it. I've heard things like......they only cry because they need you, it's their only way to communicate. Not responding will teach them they can't rely on you.
Any of this true? -
@MamaPhoenix: I had to fight all of those as well, but our bond is as close as ever. He still wants his mama when he isn't feeling well or when he hurts himself. Dad is a lot more fun, but mom is who he wants to put him to bed every night. It was one of my biggest fears that he would feel so abandoned by me, but if anything, it's made him a little more independent.
One thing that I made a point of doing was a nice routine with him at bed that ended with me reading to him (or DH reading to him). We sit on the rocker in his room and read a few books before we put him in his crib. He loves that bond
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We recently trained our 11 month old despite my longstanding position as a non sleep trainer. It got to the point where the waking was just too much and no one was getting rest. I can relate to all the feelings you mention in this thread. I wouldn't feel like you have to do more than you're ready for, and the like PP said, training bedtime alone may help resolve the night waking more organically. Good luck, this stuff is so tough!
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@2PeasinaPod: Thank u for this. It's good to know I'm not permanently damaging my baby. We too have a nite time routine, it ended with her in my arms. I will have to switch it up a little.
@Revel: so true, thank you.So she went down for her first nap at 12:00p only cried for 20 minuets and then slept until 3:00pm. I do think it was because of the lost sleep from last night. She was very happy when she woke up.
At 5:30pm I just put her down after some solids to eat. She closed her eyes and is out like a light. Maybe from being full? IDK, or maybe it's already working. I'm interested in seeing what tonight brings. -
Hugs!! All I want to say is try not to get too caught up in what you read. You need to do what is best for your family. If that's sleep training, fine. If it's not, that's also fine. Personally, I found these tips from Dr Sears helpful. http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/sleep-problems/31-ways-get-your-baby-sleep-and-stay-asleep
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I can definitely relate!!
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@MamaPhoenix: I didn't read all the comments, but I think it's BS that babies sleep or eat a certain way based on their age or weight. Do what feels right for you and your LO.
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@MamaPhoenix: sounds like she got a great nap in! is she down for the night at 5:30 or a nap? while you are sleep training, I would try to get her on a schedule- it will really help with sleep training. at 6 months she probably needs 2 long naps a day or 3 naps if they are on the shorter side. I would not let her just sleep in til whenever. Depending on when you want her to wake up and go to bed (7-7, 8-8, 9-9, etc depending on your/her needs). good luck tonight!
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@Zbug: Thank you I'm looking forward to reading that article when I get some time.
@scg00387: Agreed!
@NovBaby1112: Thank you. I've kinda been on a schedule for a while now. two hours after wake up she goes for the first nap. She usually does an hour. today was i think because of the lack of sleep last night. then she's up for 3hrs and I cuddle her into nap #2. I start her bedtime routine at 8-8:30. I like that she sleeps in till 8:30-9:00am most days. I'm really not a morning person. But it believe its 12hrs no matter what. 7pm would be 7am, I just start a little later. -
So Right now she's in her crib sleeping.
Once we got home, she had her bath, then her story. I nursed her for a while she seemed hungry. When she pulled off, I lifted her a little over the shoulder for a burp. She put her head down on my shoulder and nuzzled in.
It killed me.
I picked her up and laid her in the crib. Put her blankie on her, put her mobile on, told her I loved her and good night. I hadn't even closed the door behind me when the crying started. I waited 5 minuets, went in, patted her and restarted her mobile. By the time I made it to the kitchen to look at the monitor (camera) she had her head down. I've heard nothing else so far.
I hope, I pray that this is the end of this.
we shall see what the night brings. -
I haven't read through everything, so I hope I'm not repeating anything.
At about 6 months we did Ferber for going to sleep at night. At 13 months he is still pretty good about going to sleep and staying asleep, aside from sickness and teething sometimes. MOTN wake ups have gotten better and worse over and over. We now are at 2 night wakings to nurse. We need to get rid of these but since going back to work it is quicker to nurse then hear him cry for what can be hours.
I think you need to do what you feel is best for you and your baby.
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@ALV91711: Thank you, Going back to work is a HUGe motivator. I still have 5 months ( canadian) before going back, but in August I go for Radiation on my neck for my thyroid. I'm nervous that no one will be able to get her to sleep. I won't be able to be around her for sometime after because of the radiation.
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@MamaPhoenix: I'm glad you have time still. I'm Canadian too.
At 11.5 months he had his one year appt and the ped recommend that once he was in the crib for bed no picking up until morning. If he woke up to check him and path in but that is it. She said at that age he didn't need to nurse.
So we tried it and it worked and after a few nights he even STTN once. He didn't nurse at night for almost 3 weeks. Then daycare started and nursing has just been the easiest and quickest to get him back to sleep.
If he wakes a second time, usually an hour or two before we get up then I let him sleep the rest of the time in our bed.
I hope you find what works best for you. I feel like they are little for not long and if he needs some extra cuddles at night I'm ok with it.
Sorry for the novel
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@ALV91711: That's awesome that you got him sleeping through the night!!! I so agree with they are only little for so long. I feel the same way. I feel like she's already so busy with playing and trying to crawl. Although she is starting to reach up with her hands to me when she wants me to hold her.
I just hope that with this sleep training when she does start to STTN, it's because she not hungry, and not that she's given up hope that I'll come for her. I'm starting to think that I can do the bedtime and nap training, but not the wake ups yet. If she calls out I'll go see if she needs to eat. Then if she won't I'll try, but only if I know for sure she's not teething, or it's a sleep regression. IDK the first two years are so hard to train anything. You never know really what your LO's going through. -
It's 2:30 am here. Baby Phoenix went down at 9:30pm with only 5 minuets of crying/fussing. She just started crying........she was stuck vertically in her horizontal crib. I moved her and the crying stopped. She moaned and fell back asleep.
So far so good. 5hrs down.
7 to go? -
4:30 am She woke up crying. I gave it 5 min. I went in and fed her. She was hungry, nursed for 15 min. She fell asleep on my shoulder. She was like a limp noodle.
I'm guessing the next wake up will be between 6 or 7am. -
So happy things have gone so well for you!!! Also jealous yours went back down at 4:30!
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@MamaPhoenix: Sounds like a pretty good night!
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ok So here it is. She slept till 8:30am, then we got up for the day. She spent till 9 am in her crib just babbling and playing. I can't believe its working. I can live with one wake up a night and then right back to sleep. If i didn't blog about here I could of gotten an even better night of sleep! lol
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Day/Night #3
Baby phoenix's started the day at 8:30 am . She went down for her first nap at 11:00 am with no fight. She slept till 2:00 pm and I had to go in and wake her. I had running around to do and she was coming with me. At 5:00 pm She fell asleep in the van on the way home. Slept for the 30 min car ride. I read somewhere that if they fall asleep for more than 10 minuet it counts as a nap. You then have to wait an hour before trying for another nap. Not sure how much I believe it. I did put her down when we got in the house, but she was so awake and not going back to sleep. 9:30 pm she nursed half awake half asleep. when she pulled off I put her in her crib and she was out. It's 10:40 now and she's adjusted her position a couple of times but is still sound asleep.
Here's hoping for another successful night. -
Just checking in to see how your next night went!
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@2PeasinaPod: Hey! thanks for checking in. it's been crazy lately.
Baby Phoenix is doing great.
Day/Night 3 was ok. she did great with her naps but was up three times that night. I was exhausted mothers day. Not because of her getting up, but because DH was home and snored like a damn chainsaw. I literally put the pillow over his face at one point in the night.
Day/Night 4 was great. She fell asleep no problem for her first nap. The rest of the day was messed up for her from traveling and visiting. I thought It was gonna be hell getting her to sleep after an eventful day. She went to bed early 8:30pm without any fuss. She woke up at 4:30am to eat, right back down, then woke up at 8:30am and started her day. I slept so good! it was awesome. I can do nice long stretches like that.
Day/Night 5. For the most part she will go down for naps without a fuss. She actually had 3 naps today. only the middle one she cried for 3 minuet. I had to stop DH from running in the room to "rescue" her. He was surprised how quick she settled down.
As for tonight.......well that's a whole other story. I did our bedtime routine and placed her in her crib about 35 min ago. she's done nothing but cry. I've done three checks and she's no were near settling down. She's actually getting louder.
Did I do something wrong?
I don't know why she's going on like this after doing so good this week. -
OMG I'm gonna loose it. I've gone in again and she just scream's more. It's almost an hour. It's like night 1 all over again. Thank god she hasn't woken up my DH yet. He going in to work tonight and wouldn't be too pleased.
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@MamaPhoenix: Hey there! Ahh...I'm so sorry she had a rough night last night. Did she go down ok??
There was a period that got worse before it got better. It was the beginning of week 2 that he seemed to cry longer for us. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but we couldn't do checks. Our LO would escalate with checks unfortunately, so we did extinction. Do you have a video monitor? You could try that method tonight, but only if you're comfortable with it.
Lots of luck and hop it keeps getting better for you!
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@2PeasinaPod: Ya she did finally calm down and pass out. I'd say it was like 11:00pm. She slept till 1:30 am and right back to sleep after I nursed her. The next time she woke up was 8:30am. I'm gonna chock this one up to humidity. It was fairly warm yesterday and the temp in the house went up. She's used to a cooler environment and I think I was too warm for her. I have the air on today as it was reading 82F in the house. Hopefully after a cool bath tonight she'll go down better.
On average how long am I supposed to do this for? Does it take weeks? months? -
@MamaPhoenix: I've heard that it usually takes about 2-3 weeks to be able to fully sleep train; however, it took us about a month and a half. We had some teething issues at the same time, so we kept having to start over. The more consistent you are, the faster it should go!
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@2PeasinaPod: Oh I see. What do you do during teething? Abandon the training? How long? If so do they catch on faster the next time around?
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@MamaPhoenix: Glad to hear things are going pretty well! From what I've found, there's usually an extinction burst around days 5-8 where they throw out one last final attempt to revert back to the old ways. Also, I'm kind of totally jealous you did naps at the same time. I'm putting those off for now, but am now dreading having to do it all over!
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@ms.janedoe: I figured that since she was no longer co-sleeping and napping in her crib as well, that it was time for both. Easier, plus I was afraid it would confuse her. She smart though and I know If I gave her one, id have to do both.
I am super surprised tonight. I did the night time routine, bath, book, hugs kisses. Placed her in her crib and walked out. I watched on the monitor that she closed her little eyes and fell asleep. Totally opposite from last night. Maybe that was all she had left. It's so peaceful right now. I hoping I'll be getting a good night sleep tonight.
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