The same day that DeVos was confirmed, Republicans introduced a bill to dismantle the Department of Education completely.
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Reagan proposed the same thing (along with dismantling the Department of Energy) in the 80s and it never came to fruition. I'd love to say I don't think this would, either, but it seems like literally anything is possible right now...
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At least without an education department then DeVos doesn't have a job...
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@littlebug: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing! I don't know what the make-up of the House and Senate were in the 80s. Plus I feel like Republicans back there were a little more liberal...
@ShootingStar: haha, that's the only benefit.
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@ShootingStar: ha! I thought the same thing. And I can't say I disagree with his quote that "Unelected bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. should not be in charge of our children’s intellectual and moral development."
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My thoughts are...If they abolish EPA/NEA/PBS/NPR/DEA then those intellectuals and scientists will no longer be beholden to serve an agenda that disgusts them. So fine, whatever, dismantle them.
However if you see common core dismantled and school choice prevail, you may see a tremendous brain drain. I would rather my kid be in a common core school than a locally controlled one. And any school with competent teachers can implement CC, so I would be wary of teaching at any school that advocated rejecting them. I say this as a parent and teacher who lived in a rural area and moved due to schools and would definitely do it again.
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@Madison43: I think the vast majority of unelected bureaucrats are probably educated in teaching and have real world experience with children. It is the elected buffoons who allowed DeVos to be appointed. I know a few people who work at agencies like this one and they are amazing professionals with PhDs etc. My congressman has no clue about education...Yet felt fine appointing DeVos.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: yes. CC has its flaws but it's better than all the poor rural students being taught who knows what.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Let's call it what it is, some senators took money from the DeVos family and Mrs. DeVos has gone on the record saying that she expects something in return.
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@T.H.O.U.: I'm worried about what will happen to schools in poor districts that depend on federal funding. And I'm worried about schools in extremely conservative districts that may decide to teach whatever they want. I feel like there needs to be some sort of equal accountability across schools. It wouldn't be fair if, because I was born wherever and only had access to the one school, I didn't receive a quality education and couldn't go on to get a quality higher education.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I was referencing Devos
no offense to others intended.
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@looch: I also read that! But I think you are giving them too much credit. I think that many Republicans (I live in rural GA where only 9,000 of the 40,000 that voted voted for HRC) actually believe that public school is dangerous bad, and that if they got their tax money back they could pay to send their kids to private, Christian schools. They see it as "we are being forced to finance values we don't hold...We want our money back!" In my area, my representatives all voted for DeVos and see school choice as a "liberty" issue.
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@Madison43: I figured but I just wanted to say that because there are so many conservatives who will just say, all bureaucrats are bad, and people are like bandwagoning on the idea that professionals and scientists are bad people and that scares me! I have a friend at the national institute for health who said her director of fifteen years just quit. They work on antibiotics overused/superbug prevention. Sad that we are missing out on these professionals because some ideologues have a bent against professionals
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I don't think a lot of the senators are actually listening to ALL of their constituents. Lots of selective hearing going on.
And yes, I think that calling it "vouchers" and "school choice" is way to funnel money from public school to religious schools. So much for separation of church and state.
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@looch: that's because everyone is such an ideologue these days. Most conservatives truly believe that free market would improve education. That the market would create secular private schools for devil worshipping liberals to attend and if those are far away from them, the more the better. They also believe that if there was a liberal brain drain in their area it would be OK because DJT will bring coal back and we won't need those elitist liberals anyway...
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@looch: see their perspective is, it doesn't violate church and state to dismantle public school altogether... This is the end goal I believe.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Yes, I agree...the end goal is to dismantle public education. Then, everyone can do their own thing, which is exactly where the country was 200 years ago. No way will I stand by and allow this to happen.
I am fortunate to live in a state that is ranked in the top 5 in the country. We have a strong state constitution that demands public education. I am worried that the rest of the country is simply going to drag us all down to their level.
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@looch: but how? The more we talk about the value of public education, the more they roll their eyes. I saw a comment on the WSJ Facebook page from a scared special ed teacher and like 30 comments berating her for being a "scaremonger." People are so driven by their ideology that they are talking right past each other. I think the best we can do is enroll our kids in PS and get involved with PTA etc. Change the perception that PS is sub par.
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BTW good convo!
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I am going to make an appointment to talk to a state representative. I want to understand what is actually possible, for example, I do not think that it will be possible to withdraw IDEA in my state. I want to understand what it means when DeVos says that the decision to allow schools to remain as gun free zones is best left to the states and locales.
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I would give it one ounce of attention. Do you know how hard it is to dismantle the Department? How many laws will need to changed? A one sentence bill has no weight.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Thanks for your insight into a rural area. That's pretty frightening.
Most Americans are happy with their kid's schools: http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/08/23/490380129/americans-like-their-schools-just-fine-but-not-yours
The idea that public schools in general are failing is a false narrative so that money can be diverted away from public schools.
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I'd say good riddance. There are too many cooks in the kitchen. Every few years the game changes, the tests change, the teaching methods change and teachers have to scramble to adjust to this instead of teaching the way they know works. At least this is how it works in NYC... I'm honestly not sure how much of it is coming from the federal DOE vs state bureaucrats. And besides, no DOE is probably better than a DOE with DeVos trying to destroy it from the inside by making it a useless mess.
But yeah, there go basic education standards. I'm sure certain states will be too happy to get rid of those for good. It's already happened in some religious schools in NYC, despite having all these agencies that in theory have some authority even over homeschool curriculum.
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So education is going to be for the rich. Hey, might has well get rid of child labor laws too, because once we get rid of all the Mexicans we are going to need workers to fill those jobs at low pay, and kids will be cheap labor. Great idea.
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@Mama Bird: education is a science...Just like other applied sciences. Things change as our body of research changes. Are you bothered when medicine changes?
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@Mama Bird: The thing that concerns me is that religious and charter schools are often not equipped nor under any obligation to provide an education to children that are differently abled. Meaning, they can refuse to provide an education to a child that has learning disabilities or gay parents. It's not even about what the curriculum.
I know people are thinking that charter schools are great, and some of them are, but they're not the complete answer. Some have great records, sending everyone off to college because they simply refuse to accept students with anything less than perfect performance. We need to understand the full picture of what's happening.
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I do not understand how anyone can believe it is good for our democracy to let only those who can afford it in terms of money, time and other resources (family support) to get a good education.
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@looch: Yes, I agree.
Also there is a teacher shortage at public schools with students taught by long term subs and emergency hires. Students taught all semester by untrained teachers. The situation will be even more complex if you subtract funding, students and teachers jumping to vouchered private schools.
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@looch: I worked in a charter system...It was a lot of book cooking to get the numbers to look right. High graduation scores but the kids tested and retested and retested until they passed. And I am not against re testing. But I think it needs to be a guided process not just putting failing kids in front of a computer and saying, take this until you pass.
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@petitenoisette: Because the more liberals that don't receive a quality education, the less likely they are to vote!
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@petitenoisette: To me this is the inherent difference between Republicans and Democrats. As a Democrat I believe that by lifting everyone up, it benefits our society as a whole (and therefore me/my family).
Republicans seem to believe that we should all be out for ourselves and you can't afford a better life it's because you didn't work hard enough and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
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@ShootingStar: How much do you think is generational?
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@looch: I'm not sure any of it is generational, to be honest. I think generations are becoming more and more entrenched in this idea, even the people who aren't benefited by it. This is a huge reason why poor whites voted for Trump.
I'd love to be proven wrong though.
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This baffles me! And then there are countries like Finland, where educations ranks among the highest in the world.
Why can't we be like that? Where did we go wrong? Not just in terms of education, but healthcare, maternity care, etc.
It just depresses me. We could be so much better. I blame free market capitalism for the majority of American ills, and the idea of the "self-made man" and "rugged individualism."
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So to add some levity and realness to this convo. There is an excellent, non religious private school called Darlington in my town that basically every rich person bends over backwards to afford. One of the churches in my town put up this sign:
DARLINGTON HARBORS SATAN
No lie....This was visible on the perimeter highway that goes around my town!
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: OMG, hahaha!!
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@Bibliolove: I blame those things and religion. I hate to say it, but even the religious moderates in my area have a "Jesus will handle it" mentality. I haven't been to church in a year.
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I just wanted to say...I shouldn't blame religious people because there are some amazing religious people. But I do think if we all pick up our part of the problem, one thing would be for religious people to recommit to investing in life here, and for non religious people to try to get to understand the perspective of faithful people and respect it more.
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What would happen to special programs that are federally mandated? Does anyone know? Would it be up to the states to determine rules regarding special education, programs for English language learners, etc.? Because I've lived and worked in rural areas where basic ESL instruction wasn't provided even though it's required by federal law. So how much worse would it get for these students if programs like these are left up to the states?
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no offense to others intended.
It just depresses me. We could be so much better. I blame free market capitalism for the majority of American ills, and the idea of the "self-made man" and "rugged individualism."
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