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My father is gay, and I was pretty unfazed when he "came out" to myself and my two sisters when I was 12. My singing teacher, who is like a second father to me, is also gay, so that is two very important people in my life who are homosexual.

As a Christian, I struggle with whether or not they're in the "right" sometimes, but in the end, it's up to God to judge, not me. I love my father and my singing teacher so much, exactly the way they are and I know God loves them too.

@Crisark:

@MrsJacks: @deerylou: You learn something new every day

@Glitter: That's interesting, because I believe that marriage is a civil matter. I was married by my father, a justice of the peace. Would you have an issue with this, or have been uncomfortable at my wedding?

I haven't been to a church wedding in a lot of years, so someone please correct me on this, but I thought the celebrant stated "and now by the power vested in me by the state of CT, I declare you husband and wife." So, any clergy member can perfrom a ceremony, BUT unless the marriage license is signed, there's no marriage.

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Like many, my dad struggled with his identity for many years. He married and had three children in an attempt to be like everyone else.

My singing teacher was also once married to a woman. He's now been with his partner for 30 years, married for 5. My singing teacher is a Christian man, and his partner is Catholic.

@pui: that is certainly fine, but you wouldn't be able to legally call yourself married without the civil portion, no?

@mrsjyw: I agree with you. We ALL fall short of God. I don't get to judge because others sin differently than I do.

@Mrs. Jacks: your conversation is what spurred me to answer this post. I typically try to shy away from expressing my beliefs, but couldn't pull myself away this time!

@Glitter: So, can dig a little deeper?
Marriage is obviously very important to you and your religion. And, I assume, you believe that marriage is more than just a legal agreement. It's a covenant between the couple and God.
I understand that, because of your beliefs, you find it extremely difficult to attend religious weddings outside of your faith.

But now I am wondering how you feel about legal marriage. Do you believe that homosexuals should be allowed to be legally married? Do you think heterosexual people outside of your religion should be allowed to be legally married? Do you believe that atheists should be allowed to be legally married?
I ask that because if you have a child that is homosexual, even if you wouldn't attend the wedding, do you think that they should have the right to get married?

I get very confused because all of the Christians I know are against a legal marriage of two devout Christians who are gay, but are fine with my legal marriage. I am staunch atheist that does not believe in God or follow the teachings of the Bible (I let my morals guide me) but I am heterosexual.

@mrsjyw: so well said!

I truly appreciate everyone who is taking the time to share their perspective... and others who are taking the time to try and understand it. I've learned a lot from this thread.

Just a reminder and a request to keep things civil!

@TemperanceBrennan: I think those are two separate issues. No one says atheists cannot get married, no religion speaks against that. However most religions have marriage as being between opposite sex; as in one man & one woman, and that is why the marriage of one man to three women or the marriage of a man to an object/animal or same sex person is considered against many religions. So it is not about whether you are religious or not but rather whether you are marrying someone of the same or opposite gender as yourself.

@Dandelion: but that is my point, the state doesn't invoke a religious organization when they validate a marriage, where a religous one can not legal exist without the state.

I am married legally because I have a license from the state in which I reside. For me, there is no reason to have a religious ceremony.

For those that want the religious ceremony, you must also have the license. The religious ceremony alone is not a legal marriage, unless your celebrant acts on behalf of the state...at least this is how I understand it to be in the US.

@looch: Your question(s) make(s) sense to me.

@looch: Yes exactly. That is the only argument I have heard that isn't directly related to religion - "Procreation is good for society and marriage encourages this. Even if a heterosexual couple doesn't have children, it still has the "potential" or "appearance of potential" for children."
But what about a woman past menopause? Or adoption? Or like you said, a couple that is infertile?

You make sense to me.

I hope I don't come across as argumentative, I am truly trying to understand.

@TemperanceBrennan: I am a Christian, but my beliefs clearly differ from some other Christians' interpretations regarding same-sex marriage, so I can't really answer your questions. In fact, your questions are the same ones that I discuss with my Christian friends that haven't questioned or thoughtfully considered their reasoning for being against same-sex marriage (particularly civil marriage).

Disagreement about whether particular religions or houses of worship should allow same-sex marriage is one thing, but when asking the question of civil marriages, I cannot get behind the idea at all that religious beliefs should govern a non-religious ceremony. Then again, my Christian church is very liberal and allows for same-sex marriages within the Church, so my viewpoint is very different from those asserting opinions to the contrary.

@MrsMcD: To be fair, a lot of us are Christians also who are exasperated with the use of our religion to justify homophobia.

@MrsMcD: I don't take issue with anyone's religion or spirituality. What I take issue with is someone requesting a debate and then not being able to hold up their end of the bargain. I don't *badger* people for having different views/opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to accept an ill-conceived supposition out of the fear of being perceived as intolerant.

As an aside, I don't appreciate being *badgered* for being an "affluent college educated" mom for that matter . . .

since there is a lot of discussion regarding marriage as a religious institution vs civil marriage, i wanna share my favorite excerpt from the ruling to allow same sex unions in my state. one of my proudest MA moments! this really embodies my views on marriage and why every couple deserves the opportunity to take part in it if they so choose. i don't believe in forcing churches who don't agree with same sex marriages to preform marriages they don't support, but i don't see why states should have the right to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

Goodridge v. Department of Public Health

"Marriage is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and mutual support; it brings stability to our society. For those who choose to marry, and for their children, marriage provides an abundance of legal, financial, and social benefits. In return it imposes weighty legal, financial, and social obligations….Without question, civil marriage enhances the “welfare of the community.” It is a “social institution of the highest importance.” … Marriage also bestows enormous private and social advantages on those who choose to marry. Civil marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment to another human being and a highly public celebration of the ideals of mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity, and family…. Because it fulfills yearnings for security, safe haven, and connection that express our common humanity, civil marriage is an esteemed institution, and the decision whether and whom to marry is among life’s momentous acts of self-definition."

@MrsMcD: I don't understand your comments, do you care to clarify?