Hellobee Boards

@Mrs. Sketchbook: Yes, Art is supposed to stir up conversation, I agree with you there. That's what these photos were meant to do and it's occurred.

What I can not get behind is the fact that it's okay to say the photos are gross and revolting, but they're not a value judgement. I know I am in the minority, that's fine.

@looch: A photo where sexuality is portrayed between a mother and her sons is revolting. Is that debatable? Really? I guess I didn't realize it's not okay to be kinda creeped out by glamourized incest. Even looking at it as art, it's clearly art that is meant to illicit this kind of gut reaction.

I don't see why anyone should feel bad for calling these photos revolting or gross. They were literally designed to be as shocking and controversial as possible.

This isn't some poor mom who innocently posted a photo of her baby in the bath and is now getting accused of spreading child porn. This is a mother who posed with her sons purposely so that it would look like incest. I think everyone's reaction is exactly what they wanted and exactly what the expected.

But would you have reacted the same if it were just two male models beside her, in those exact same poses? Because it is her with her sons, it's by default a judgement on her mothering when someone calls it revolting, at least that's my opinion.

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion. I am just kind of surprised that it's okay to hate on other people, that's all.

@looch: Just to play devil's advocate (not to start a fight because you know how much I like you)... What if she actually was having an incestual sexual relationship with one of her sons...at that point would you still argue that it's not acceptable to hate on her and call her revolting?

these photos make me sick. My stomach literally turned whne I saw them, I think they are absolutely disgusting.

@looch: Fair enough!

@looch: I think what you are assuming is that this is play acting and it is insane to get so worked up over play acting that is intended to make us worked up. We're essentially being punked.

However, one can look back at other Hollywood parent-child relationships and see how kids are exploited sexually. I think of the child that Roman Polanski raped, or Brooke Shields, or Drew Barrymore, etc. So it isn't like this sort of thing never crosses into illegal or damaging territory. Any time a minor is involved I think it is our responsibility to call a spade a spade. And perhaps not even a minor when there is an abuse of power going on, ie, Jerry Sandusky. Even if our children are not the ones impacted.

If there is anything sexual in the relationship between Seymour and her sons, AND it started before they were legal adults, then yeah there's a problem with that relationship, as society we've decided this, we have laws to handle it. So obviously judgment is a part of that.

Of course that doesn't seem to be the case here. These sons haven't indicated they've been forced to engage this.

But imagine if you were a survivor of abuse or forced incest? Would these photos hurt you? Would they glamorize your pain? Would they make it harder for you to come forward with your story?

I get annoyed by the notion that being sophisticated or intellectual or whatever automatically means you're not allowed to engage critique. The best minds of former ages were constantly involved in critiquing their peers, that's where most all of our art and science comes from. Without it, there would be no intellectual conversation.

And in fact I also don't mind the mommy wars for the same reason. I think it is important to have a healthy discussion about what constitutes good parenting. And I am my toughest critic. If I put my kid in front of the tube it may be because I need to get something done, but it doesn't mean that I think that TV for kids is all hunky dory. I'm not saying all issues relating to parenting are black and white, but a lot of moms get so uptight when something they do gets critiqued, and I think that can be unhealthy.

@Mrs. Sketchbook: I love a good conversation, don't get me wrong there. I think that yes, you can discuss and you can question, you can express your opinion.

It takes a lot to shock me and work me up. I usually look at the context first, in this case, Harpers Baazar, a high fashion magazine that I don't really identify with. I am not their target audience, let's put it that way. Knowing it was a celebrity, knowing they've been in the news before, I simply took this stunt as a way to keep them in the news, nothing more. I didn't look any deeper than that, either to judge or to think about how victims may have reacted.

Awkward and slightly creepy was my take, but only because I knew it was a mother with her sons. Had I not known that, I probably wouldn't have batted an eye because fashion magazines have photos like this all the time.

Strange because its her sons, but agreed - I wouldn't have blinked an eye if I didn't know they were related. Fashion & art have photos like this all the time.

@Mrs. Sketchbook: well said

@looch: I am revolted by their relationship, not necessarily by her mothering because I do feel the boys are old enough to know that what they're doing is....odd. I guess I am SHOCKED that boys of that age (and a mother) would all just do this and think nothing of it. I don't know: I don't see it as a parenting flaw, I see it as personal judgement gone wrong, because to me, that is unnatural of a son to do. Forget her, what were *they* thinking?
No, I def don't think I'd have an issue if they were two male models, aged 18+.

@rachiecakes: I hated the Miley Cyrus Vanity Fair photos too. It wasn't him I was mad at only, but almost the magazine, and I was sad that Miley thought it was ok. I just thought it was all no bizarre.