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Ugh that’s rough. That age is a pretty common sleep regression. We were getting some 5-7 hour stretches before that and since then (she’s 6m now) it’s back to 3-4, when she wants to eat (even though I don’t think she needs to). But obviously that is nothing compared to what you are dealing with!!

From the timing it sounds like he’s not connecting sleep cycles and a little sleep training might help. I’ve only done nap training so far with this baby but I was impressed how quickly it helped with really minimal crying. Total STTN may be harder (more crying to achieve - we did total extinction with my second) but I bet you could get to longer stretches at least. There’s no perfect approach to sleep training but I’d try to tough it out some and see what happens.

If you don’t want to sleep train another alternative may be co sleeping. It’s another thing to break later obviously but some babies are very comforted by it and will sleep much longer stretches which may help you regain your sanity in the short term and re evaluate your options at that point. Just throwing it out there!

DS2 is 5.5 months and the 4 month sleep regression was terrible but unfortunately it sounds like you have it worse. I did sleep training right at 4 months to help teach him to go to sleep and it did work. We didn’t do anything for night and finally this week it is starting to improve but I know we have to do sleep training for even better.

If I were in your shoes I’d do sleep training and get the wake ups down to a couple at least.

Sending lots of hugs your way.

Sleeeep train using a method that works for you. IMHO if it's been a month, it's not getting better on its own.

@SweetiePie: I didn't get alerted that you tagged me in this because I hadn't commented on the thread yet ! but yes @PurplePumps: we did just sleep train our girl (at 5 months), we also sleep trained our son at 4.5 months, and at least for us, I'm quite certain, to answer your original post question, that it would not have gotten better without sleep training. we did pure extinction CIO and it worked in 3 nights for my son, which I think is pretty typical. Our daughter was a lot tougher and we had a major setback last week when she got super sick with RSV and broke her first tooth at the same time. we'll have to re-train when she's all better, but for me the difference is happy family vs depressed/angry/not functioning family.

Be aware whichever method you go with that extinction bursts do happen--this is when everything seems like it's getting marginally better and then night 5 (or whatever) is FROM HELL. push through it and you will be rewarded, for real. hang in there, this is the hardest part!

@PurplePumps: Based on her sleep the past few days, have you considered getting her ears checked? My DD had her first ear infection at 4 months and her sleep went to crap overnight. I realize sleep has not been optimal for your DD for a while, but given the recent decline, I'd get an ear check.

ETA: Sorry, just saw DS not DD!

@2littlepumpkins: agree with everything in your 2nd paragraph - drowsy but awake may seem like a myth, but if you don’t do it from day 1 it is something that has to be learned and the only way to learn is to do it over and over. It may feel like you’re banging your head against a wall but it will eventually click. You have to do it for every nap and bedtime and night waking. Night can be harder since they might fall asleep during the feed, but if you’re doing it majority of other times, it should be ok. It seems so much easier sometimes to just go ahead and rock or feed to sleep, but I promise that is just putting a bandaid on the situation. Unless you truly enjoy it, it’s not a good long term solution.

And also yes to the fussing and sometimes screaming. My 2nd (1yo) mostly goes down quietly but maybe once a day or so he’ll fuss or even full on sob when I first lay him down, but usually by the time I walk to the kitchen he’s done and already nodding off or at least quietly reflecting on life I think he occasionally has to blow off a few seconds of steam before settling. I always have to warn anyone babysitting of this because they will naturally want to pick him back up.

@PurplePumps: I would also suggest that you could try shorter wake times. It sounds crazy but my babies absolutely could not go more than like an hour to 1h15m awake for a loooong time. Definitely still at 4.5 months the max was 1h15min. Some “sleepy” signs are actually signs that you’re too late to put them down. I would try to beat those signs. Like if you notice after a day or two of watching the clock that at 1h15 is when your babe shows sleepy signs, I would make sure he is in the bed before that. Like at 1h go back and change diaper so that they are in the bed by 1h5m.

I know first hand how overwhelming all of this sleep stuff can be. Feel free to wall me. I was so frustrated when my first was a baby, I basically made it a mission to learn all things sleep.

@PurplePumps: omg TOTALLY normal! Everyone says all babies are different and when you read that stuff it usually means that’s the MAX they should spend awake. Some babies are higher sleep needs. Mine both were and for my first I also didn’t know this and he was so overtired all the time becuase I thought he should be spending more time awake. Once my doc told me to throw any suggested time awake out the window and look at what HE was telling me, it was a new baby.
ETA: even close to around 4 months sometimes he couldn’t do more than 45 mins awake! I think a lot depended on each day - growth spurts, if he had a lot of stimulation, etc. Don’t ever be afraid to put them down TOO early. The worst that will happen is you’ll see it’s too early and you can leave him to eventually fall asleep OR get him out and try again in 10-15 mins. But if you keep him up too long, you get to the overtired and wired cycle and that can’t really be undone. Being conservative on awake time is the way to go.
You’ll learn in this first year that it’s good to read about the “textbook” scenarios and be aware of them. But there’s so much trial and error and trying to figure out if your baby is the textbook or maybe the outlier (high or low sleep needs). The same will go with food, behavior, etc.

If he’s bucking and screaming when it’s time to sleep and it’s not just a brief “blow some steam off” thing, it sounds like overtired. Which also doesn’t help the nighttime connecting sleep cycles. It’s all a vicious cycle. Sleep begets sleep is so true at this age, for the most part.

@PurplePumps: i totally agree with @SweetiePie: re: short wake times. I wasn't as strict with DD1 but with DD2 she did only 45-1 hr wake times until like 8 months. It blew my mind but it was so successful and she slept so much which was awesome! it's worth a try for sure. And re: the nighttime sleep, so so sorry you are having a rough time. the 4 month regression is the pits. Stay strong and stick with whatever you decide to do and sleep will improve. Good luck!

That’s definitely waking up at the end of every sleep cycle- I remember that phase with my older daughter very well (I had actually blocked it from my memory until I read this and it came rushing back!).

For us, we had been rocking or nursing to sleep before that, so I had to teach her to fall asleep on her own. And for us, that meant cry it out. Ferber checks only made her worse so we did extinction and it was only a couple of bad nights. I still went in and fed her insuring the night, but set a time likit- like first she had to fall asleep on her own, then I wouldn’t go in before ten, or midnight, or whatever. Once she started staying asleep between sleep cycles the wake ups gradually lessened. And I personally tackled naps later on, which did mean I often just held her for naps during this time so she wouldn’t get totally overtired, but for other people I know it works better to deal with it all at once.

Good luck!

@SweetiePie: thanks! just walled you.