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As an additional thought for 11-13 year olds- the parents seem to be the problem. Who pays for their clothes? Who washes their clothes? Who provides transportation to school? And the mall?
This makes me kind of thankful that in my conservative farming community Carhartt, Realtree and Tony Lama bought at the feed store is what is considered stylish, but I volunteer for 4-H, so it may just be the crowd. We have lots of community events... Fairs, concerts, boat races, art walk etc. and I rarely look twice at what kids wear.
As an extra side note where do you even find these clothes for tweens? My Mom and I took my cousins 12 and 16 year old girls back to school shopping and they requested Target and Old Navy. The most trendy item purchased was polka dot skinny jeans.
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@youboots: Forever 21, Urban Outfitters, that kind of place. It's just bizarre to me that boys in MS don't have this pressure to be "sexy" but the girls have already internalized the message. And I hate the "it's hot out". it's like 85 degrees today, I'm pregnant, we don't have AC at our school, and I'm wearing pants and a short sleeved tunic. I'm actually okay. I even had lunch duty and took the kids outside, which is why I'm posting about it now.
I can only imagine how horrified parents would be if I showed up to work wearing hot shorts and a half top "because it's hot out" and I just told them to please stop sexualizing my body, haha.
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I had a bad experience with this concept in HS. I was wearing a lovely cashmere shell and apparently you could just barely see the back of my bra (from the back). I lived alone, I had no idea, plus I didn't know I was violating some code plus in retrospect it wasn't inappropriate. I got called into an office and the teachers and principal shamed me, I remember them saying that "that was fine if I wanted to wear that around the house with my boyfriend." As if I was in a nighty. Anyhow.
I am against regulating clothing, but then again maybe some basic rules should apply (like no genitalia showing).
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Eek, this is tough. While I think that there should be certain rules and limits to what kids can wear to school, I also think that kids should be allowed to express themselves through clothing. I guess my question to my daughter who wanted to wear super-short shorts would be, "What are you trying to say about yourself in those shorts? What do you think you're conveying about who you are in those shorts?"
I definitely dressed differently for school than I did for weekends. I had my "going out" shirts that were midriff-bearing, my jeans that were a little bit tighter on my butt...but I wore those out with my girlfriends when we went to the under-21 clubs. Not to school, not to the movies, not to the mall. In my mind, there was a time and place for that kind of clothing.
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I have lots of thoughts about this. As a person who has very long arms and did as a awkward middle schooler, I resented the inseam rule where you shorts had to be longer than your fingertips, because at the time (1997-1999), it was very hard to find shorts long enough for me to wear. Skirts were easier, but I didn't wear them often. The tank top rule (1" or wider and must cover your bra straps) never bothered me either. My schools were always air-conditioned, but I know that's not the case everywhere and even if you are wearing a tank top, it's going to be hot. You're not really any cooler. But, on the whole, I didn't hate the dress code and I followed it.
As a parent, I will encourage my daughter to dress modestly no matter what.
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All my wondering about student dress and "What were parents thinking?" fade away at graduation when I see how their moms dress. Just sayin.
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I remember being puzzled about two things on our dress code at school: thick shoe laces (still don't understand, something to do with gangs?!) and spaghetti straps...which I get now. But I didn't care then LOL
When my child/children (to be had) get to school I will encourage modest dress, while still being "fashionable" whatever that will mean at that point. I don't want my kids to be uncomfortable, but they don't need to be showing too much skin or anything.
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@loveisstrange: word.
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I think that you should be able to express yourself through dressing how you like wothin reason. Lets be honest, i would not let my daughter.wear hot pants or shorts with her butt hanging out bc its inappropriate in any setting imo regardless of age but esp as a minor. I only have sons so far but they will also not be allowed to wear thier pants hanging off their butts bc it looks inappropriate. No one should be seeing.my.childrens bootys. Lol.
There are so many ways to express themselves without showing so much skin. Any other form of expression i am fine with but i draw the line ay skimpy clothes for both sexes. -
I think schools can def impose some rules, but really only to a certain extent... I don't think it's too much to ask for no midriff baring, no butt cheek or cleavage showing, etc but I also see how it can be hard sometimes to draw the line. I def don't think exact length, etc works anymore.
Unfortunately, either their parents don't care, their parents dress the same way, or kids may not even have a parental figure to tell them what to do...
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And this is why I'm a fan of uniforms!
In my high school they had oversized yellow t shirts with "dress code violator" written in red that they would stick on top of you (covered your butt too) if you wore something inappropriate. Intended to be embarrassing but of course some people thought even getting one was cool, but at least they would be covered up. Not sure how well that would go over with parents ready to sue...
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@Mrs. Tiger: at our school they have extra lab coats and graduation robes for this purpose. You'd be surprised how quickly students can hustle up more appropriate clothing so they don't have to wear those!
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I work in a high school and often times just cannot believe these girls are allowed out of the house. The shorts are SO short. And not just short, but tight. And everyone is wearing belly shirts. Hormones are crazy as teenagers and it is downright distracting. Plus, many of the girls do it for attention which is a whole other sad issue
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@Mrs. Tiger: Me too. I have only ever taught in schools with uniforms and am a huge fan.
Honestly, for me the biggest benefit is that you are always guarenteed appropriate clothing. I have been fortunate to be in schools that have uniforms that include things like Asics trackpants for the girls, which are super comfortable and practical.
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There's a dress code at my work that is very similar to dress codes in schools. If I can deal with it, then so can the kids. They can save their short shorts and tank tops for the evenings and weekends, same as I do.
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I think there is a difference between just showing skin, which I am not against, and a preteen dressing in a style that is overtly sexy at school. I think parents don't see it because they don't see their children as sexual beings. It's one thing to wear short shorts or a tank top. It's another thing to be in an uncomfortable outfit that keeps you from focusing on school or exercising during PE/recess because you want to look like an American Apparel catalog.
The problem is, how do you really measure that? I guess it's easier to say "shorts must be this length."
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I think the focus should be on education, not on policing outfits. That's why I support a clear and easily enforceable dress code, or if possible, uniforms.
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I'm in NZ and even though most of our high schools have a uniform (and many primary schools are introducing uniforms) students still find ways to push the boundaries, they just choose a different avenue to do it. Just this morning I read a news article about a woman complaining that her sixteen year old son wasn't allowed to wear facial hair at school (despite the fact the rules regarding facial hair have been in place for years!!).
To be honest, I have more of a problem with parents who think the rules don't apply to their special snowflake children!!
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The thread responses have been focused on the ladies so I'm curious, are you guys not facing an enormous amount of male butt crack? I do not understand how sagging is still a thing 20(?) years later. I've encountered the issue with every male intern I've had. I don't know if it is still prevalent in high school but I will not have either of my kids flashing crack on a regular basis.
My school told us we had to wear longer shorts because diseases were spreading between the kids with short shorts due to cross contamination of crotch germs on chairs something. I wasn't into them but that sure sounded gross.
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All I can say is thank goodness for uniforms! I wore them all through HS and loved them - as someone else said, our biggest concerns were whether to roll our skirts once or twice, and whether we should wear ribbed, plain, or wool tights that day. Life was so easy. And I am infinitely grateful all kids here wear school uniforms from preschool on up.
As to the issue at hand, school is not the place for kids to be expressing themselves with inappropriate clothing. Express yourselves how you want outside of school, but in school, one needs to dress appropriately, which means covering up to a modest extent (males and females) and dressing in a manner that is conducive to learning. And because some parents clearly have no issues with their child dressing inappropriately, that is why I think a strict dress code should be mandated for all kids. It may sound awful to kids initially, but I think an awful lot of kids would be grateful to have rules in place that no longer make them feel as though they have to dress like everyone else. Peer pressure is awful at that age and I bet there are an awful lot of girls at the OP's school who would really rather not be wearing skimpy clothes, but feel they have to to fit in. That makes me sad.
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@hilsy85: agree with you 100%
School is not a place for self expression through clothing choices- it's a learning environment. I'm so sick of kids these days (oh my god I sound old) thinking they can do/say/wear whatever in the name of self expression. Sorry, that's not how the real world works. You can't just show up to work in the corporate world in short cut offs. School is a place to learn and prepare children for the future. There is a time and place for kids to express themselves by wearing whatever they wish, but it's not at school.
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@Corduroy: most of the boys in my school dress conservatively by nature. Clothes that fit...can't think of anyone with intentionally sagging pants, honestly!!
With the girls it is butts and boobs on display all day long, especially now that it is warmer out. And it is not the outfit typically, but the attitude behind it. Many of the girls dress that way to try and be sexy
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@Corduroy: in my current school, we have 0 issues with male dress right now, save for the occasional t shirt with inappropriate/suggestive lettering on it.
But at my old school (super low income inner city school), the boys were much bigger dress code violations--we did have uniforms (basically khaki pants or skirts with no hats, no bandanas, had to wear a belt), but we had a constant problem with sagging pants and yes, in those cases parents who refused to buy their kids pants that fit properly. In that school, we had real issues with security and violence so giving kids huge baggy pants where they can hide weapons was a total no go.
We did have the occasional issue with girls dress at that school (same issue--wearing little sisters uniform shirt so it would be more tight and like a half top), but the administration there was willing to fight the battle.
My new school, no. I mean, all the teachers complain but there's no follow through. We have middle school girls wearing those slashed tops with just a neon sports bra underneath. I just dont get those parents.
Anyway, I try to remind myself there ARE kids dressed appropriately and there is a correlation at my school between better students and more appropriate dress, so at the very least it helps me know which direction I'll go when I'm a parent of a pre teen girl.
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Kids can express themselves through clothing outside of school hours. They need to get used to the idea that in some environments, certain looks just aren't appropriate.
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I also don't get the idea that letting kids dress blatently inappropriately (with bellies showing, bra straps hanging out, short shorts) is the ONLY way for them to express themselves? What about types of shoes, different tops (all at least covering your stomach), dresses, skirts, shorts (there are plenty out there that are mid thigh or longer), makeup, hair, etc etc. So I don't really buy the whole "Self expression" argument either.
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If my daughter ever feels that she needs to "express herself" by having her ass cheeks hanging out at school I would need to do some serious reflecting on the failure of my parenting.
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@Truth Bombs:
1
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@T.H.O.U.: haha I don't think I've ever seen someone use the
that way before
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@Anya: just being creative in my ways to express my feelings without a "thumbs up" or a "like" button!
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@Truth Bombs: exactly what I was trying to say!
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I was in church today and thought about this thread. One of the girls bringing up the gifts was wearing a shirt that had the sides cut out, so you could see her bra and her sides, plus the back had slits all the way down it. I was horrified.
I'm not particularly prudish but I feel like there a time and a place. If she had been wearing that while playing basketball or going for a run, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about it, but she was standing in front of the entire congregation like that.
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My personal stance is that school is supposed to prepare kids for their lives after school, in which case dressing appropriately for certain situation is an important part of life. You don't take off your clothes at work to suntan at lunch and then complain that your boss is sexualizing your body.
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I saw this article today and thought of this thread. The girl's sentiments are what I was trying to convey: http://globalnews.ca/news/1996474/moncton-teen-disciplined-for-wearing-full-length-halter-dress-to-school/
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@ShootingStar: yeah I don't buy her line of reasoning. The school dress code is clearly stated and nowhere does it mention sexuality. Just no tube tops, halter tops, or spaghetti straps. Guys also can't wear those things. Neither can teachers.
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@ShootingStar: @Anagram: I feel that that girl was just trying to cause trouble. That dress isn't appropriate for school and doesn't follow the dress code. She can wear it on the weekends, but I certainly couldn't have worn t to any job I've ever had.
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@Anagram: @Foodnerd81: Agreed. Her reasoning is not sound.
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I thought about this thread today too. GMA had a piece about a mom that let her six year old shave her head to express herself. Why don't high school girls express themselves like that? Or by wearing running shorts and sneakers (aka athletic) or whatever. What are you "expressing" about yourself when dressing in revealing clothes (talking more about low cut, short shorts etc, not shoulders).
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@T.H.O.U.: Some do. You're just not going to see articles or threads about them, because it's not controversial. Also, there's got to be an element of rebellion there. Athletic clothes aren't rebellious (unless maybe you're fighting against gender norms and trying to be deliberately non-girly).
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More and more, I'm not a fan of dress codes. I don't like the idea that we are teaching young girls their bodies must be hidden so that boys can learn, and that they are responsible for distracting them if they don't. If a son of mine told me he flunked a science test because Suzy was wearing spaghetti straps, well he's got another thing coming. There's a lot of talk about preparing for the real world, but guess what? The real world is distracting.
If the goal is to teach children professionalism, fine. But then boys shouldn't be allowed to wear sweatshirts, athletic shorts or jerseys. IMO those are far more inappropriate for work than a sleeveless blouse would be.
If I have a girl, I hope to talk to her more about how clothes are a form of expression and some times are better for some messages than others, but ultimately let her make her own choices. Is she is harassed for what she wears, I hope the school would deal with that much more harshly than a dress code violation.
Grantes, it doesn't really matter for me since it's pretty cold where I live so I don't see many high schoolers scantily clad!
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@jedeve: I guess I see it from the opposite point of view. I'd be more concerned about why my daughter feels she needs to dress in skimpy clothing to go to school. For me, it's not about being distracting to boys, it's that when girls dress in skimpy clothing, it is generally because they want the attention of men and they think that is the way to get it. To me, that is a huge issue and I want my daughters to feel valued for who they are, not on how slutty they can dress.
From what I've seen of dress in codes in working in the public schools of Chicago, there are rules that apply equally to males and females - all students had to wear navy, black or khaki pants or shorts/skirts that were knee length, and they had to wear plain white polo shirts. If it was cold, they could wear a plain black or navy sweater over their polo shirt. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Kids need boundaries and one of those boundaries that is totally appropriate is to enforce a dress code when attending school. You want to express yourself differently? Fine, do it outside of school hours. To say that kids should have the freedom to express themselves however they see fit seems to be playing into this crazy notion that we must not do anything that could possible infringe upon our precious snowflakes' freedom. Kids need boundaries, full stop; the seven or so hours per day they are in school, having to adhere to a dress code, is not going to stifle their creativity/individualism and make them lemmings for life.
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