I am drinking wine right now because I don't know what else to do. Today, I had it out with my mom, we had a screaming match and yelled at each other that we hate each other. I don't get a long with her, I don't respect her anymore for too many complicated reasons to list, I decided long ago to distance myself from her for the sake of my son, but .... she just doesn't get it. I love her in that she is my mother, but I do not like her at all. I don't want to be around her, I don't want to hear her voice, I don't want to hear her complaining about everything and her negative outlook on everything. It is not just a simple matter of getting old, she's been this way all my life. Everything is a crises to her, she fights with everyone, she's always stressed and her crisis is the most important thing all the time. She was absent for most of my son's babyhood. She doesn't respect people, she is rude and always wants her way. I feel utterly hopeless and stuck. I'm an only child, my father passed away in my teens. She was remarried for a while but no longer. So she's alone and lonely and while I feel bad that she's lonely, she put herself in that situation. And I don't want anything to do with her because she makes me absolutely crazy, like f**king crazy where I want to drive my fist into the damn wall. I'm not a cold-hearted person, but my heart has definitely been hardened because of her. She hates me because I refuse to pretend that everything is ok and live a lie. I've had to simplify everything I've written just to give you an idea, but it goes so much deeper than that .... 40+ years of this and I can't do it anymore. But what do I do ? Do I just abandon her ? Leave her to die alone ? Or just live pretending like everything is ok and go to through the motions ? It is f**king hard to ignore the things she says and not get utterly angry at her, but is that what I should do ???? She is a miserable person and I'm convinced that bad luck follows her everywhere, she complains about everybody if they don't serve her wishes. I don't want my son around that kind of negativity. How do I keep my sanity ? I literally don't know how. I feel like i'm cursed and I want to cry. She doesn't "hear" anything I say, she only wants to defend herself and so I know talking to her is futile. She is the most difficult person I know in my lifetime. She is only person who drives me to the point of screaming at the top of my lungs. I know I have a lot of deep down resentment for her for a lot of things and that I can't forgive her. I know holding on to that only hurts me ... I know it, I know it. But when you're in it, it's so damn hard. Has anyone experienced this ????? Please tell me what you did.
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1. She doesn’t hate you. Could you ever hate your son, no matter what he did? No. As mothers, we could never hate our children. She’s a mom, just like you.
2. My relationship is similar, but maybe in a little milder way, with my mom. I have stopped all confrontation because I’ve decided it’s not worth it. I’m 40. She’s 71. I’m just going to enjoy the parts of her that I love and ignore the rest. It’s not easy — but in the end, I know I’ll be glad I did.
3. Can you write to her instead of talking? My mom is impossible to talk about anything we don’t agree on. I really think email and text has saved our relationship. I’m able to lay it all out and just hope that she reads it and thinks about the way I’m feeling and my perspective. My mom has a very hard time seeing anything from anyone else’s perspective and NOTHING is ever her fault.
4. Let your son have time with her. Unless she’s in any way cruel to him or hurts him in any way, they have a right to create their own relationship with each other.
5. Hugs. Mom/daughter relationships are tough. I absolutely know that. I have two daughters of my own and my life goal is to be real with them and to encourage and respect them as women and individuals. Let’s hope I can hold up that promise to myself and not end up with a fake/superficial relationship like the one I have with my mom.
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Can you take a break from her for a bit? You didn't provide any examples, but it seems that you are trying to point out that she is emotionally abusive. My parents have been emotionally abusive during certain periods in my life. At one point I had to cut them out entirely because I nearly relapsed into anorexia again. My mom's mom was emotionally abusive, and didn't like my mom. She favored her son and hated my mom. I think she had narcissistic personality disorder in addition to her clinical diagnosis of schizophrenia. My mom had very limited contact with her mother. Her mother (my grandma) would do things like call her up at work everyday and threaten suicide. So once my mom was married and out of the house she hardly ever looked back.
Just take a deep breath. You don't have to put up with this. Regardless of whether she loves you or not, you can't let her still dictate your life. Tell your mom that you need a break for your own health. That's what I told my parents. It took several months of therapy. We actually have a great relationship now. But I was determined, before my kids were born that if my parents tried to emotionally abuse them then they would have very limited contact with my babies. Hasn't happened yet, thankfully
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Catchafallingstar: Thank you
It is comforting to know someone else out there knows what I am going through even in the slightest... I feel as though none of my friends understand because their situations are just not the same. You are right, my mom probably doesn't hate me .... I know she is probably just immensely hurt. But I think a lot of her hurt comes from her failed second marriage and she is directing it towards me. She acts like I've done something terrible to her when in actuality her ex-husband was a poor excuse for a human being and yet she still pines over him and accuses me of being a rotten daughter. I wish I could do like you and enjoy the parts of her that I love, but right now, there isn't much to love =\ I tried emailing with her long ago , I'm talking mile-long emails, and while it helped us to express our feelings without yelling at each other, in the end it didn't amount to anything. I've reached the point where I'm done with it all. Done with trying to communicate because I feel it is futile. I don't allow her to call me because (1) she takes 30 mins to 1 hour to get to her point, and (2) we always end up screaming at each other. So I make her text me, but now she refuses to do that. I do invite her to my son's events but I feel like even if she comes, she's not really present. She's preoccupied with whatever crises she has going on. She comes late to all his birthday parties and events, she complains about every restaurant we go to. How do you enjoy a person like that ? I feel like instead of enjoying my son, she tries to parent him and that pushes all my buttons. The only thing I prevent her from doing with him is driving him anywhere because of safety concerns (which she will of course take offense to). I can't fight with her anymore but I also can't totally abandon her, so I feel like I'm living in Hell. This is utter Hell for me.
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Thepaperbutterfly: I feel that my mom is narcissistic and that is why she cannot see things from other people's perspective. It is devastatingly frustrating to say the least. She is not exactly emotionally abusive but can be a cold b**ch. She will corner you with no remorse. After 40+ years of being her daughter, I feel she still doesn't know me at all. That is what pains me the most. I feel that she is beyond therapy ... meaning that it won't help her at all because she has to first be open and vulnerable and want to invite change. But she is too defensive. I have considered going to therapy just myself so that at least I can work through my own issues. I try to be apart from her as much as possible but it is difficult because she lives in the same city =\. If I say it is for my health, she will have a conniption and her head will spin in disbelief. To hear you say you have a great relationship now with your parents is wonderful.... it's encouraging, but at the same time, I don't see it happening for me. I'm a realist and I don't see it. My mom thinks I'm an optimistic fool, but I'm not - an example of how she doesn't really know me. For several years I've thought that her only hope is God - only God can change her. Nothing on this earth or no person can. I have never known anyone so stubborn, she's like a fire that can't be put out. She keeps raging on. On the one hand, I feel so done with her and want to walk away forever. On the other hand, I know it's impossible to really do that. And hence, this is my Hell.
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Emotional distance. Treat the relationship like a job. Think of it as providing assistance to an aging stranger. If you need to do something for her, stop by, do it and take your leave. Don't get dragged into emotional conversations - just change the topic or go "uh-huh" till she gets bored. Be "busy" a lot unless you really have to visit. You're right, you may end up seeing more of her as she gets older and needs more help, so do what you have to do to protect your mental health.
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@eieiyo: if you're on Reddit, I highly recommend reading up on the r/raisedbynarcississts
I can't attest to a relationship with my parents like that, but I've had a front row seat to my husband's family dynamic for years now. We ended up no contact (due to FIL's narcissistic personality disorder).
Back to Reddit, there is also lots of recommendations and anecdotal examples of low contact or grey stoning (I think is the term). Basically doing like @Mama Bird: said; treat it like a job, minimal information on things you don't care to argue about.
I do disagree that you can't hate your parent/child. I don't know if that is exactly the case for you, but it is totally possible; a lot of people don't understand that though.
Good luck
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My mom has some similar tendencies though less extreme I imagine. Big hugs to you. It can be so hard.
I really like @Mama Bird: advice. I also try to think of my mom like a coworker that I didn’t choose to work with but my life would be easier if I can do so peacefully even if it means holding some things inside. I’ve also started trying to take objective note of the things that she does that drive me away so I can avoid doing that with my kids. It helps me to not take it personally if I can see it as a lesson in how to be a better mom.
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I kinda disagree with PPs about a mom not being able to dislike her children. My mom has said at least twice that I remember that she regrets having children and dreams of what her life would be like if she hadn't. She announced a few years ago that her kids are grown and is officially done being a mom. She "doesn't have to do it anymore." I'm not saying that's what's happening with your mom!! But just wanted to point out that I don't think a default mom-esque love just because you birthed someone is always true, just based on my own experience.
To your experience, I have a friend whose parents are truly toxic. Really, really badly emotionally abusive. Her therapist laid out the following method for dealing with it:
When an argument begins/something cruel/manipulative/passive aggressive/etc. is said by your mom, say to her CALMLY, "Mom, you can't treat me that way. I won't allow it. If you do this again, I will hang up." Don't explain, because explanations imply that your feelings are up for debate, which they aren't. Whether she agrees with your feelings or not is irrelevant, your feelings belong to you and are valid. When it happens again, *which it will*, you have to follow through and hang up. Then, when you talk again sometime later and it's again CALM and she starts down this path again, you repeat the message. Same wording. And then you follow through if you have to. Over time, you set the boundaries and rules for how she is allowed to treat you. If you don't, then she will never change and you will never be treated any differently.
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@eieiyo: I walled you as I normally do not discuss the extreme issues and pain caused by my mother and our "difficult" relationship.
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I am not in this situation but I would suggest limiting the relationship to what you can handle. For example, if she isn't bad with your son - you can invite her to meet you in very limited situations - "Mom, we are going to the playground at 3 if you'd like to spend an hour or two with Jimmy." If she gets there and starts mouthing off to you, you firmly but calmly say "I'm not going to have this discussion with you" or "I don't want to talk about that right now." Take control over the situation. Give a warning, "If you keep talking about xyz, I'm going to leave." Then actually leave or end the phone call if she can't stop herself. It's all about managing the situation. It is also 1000% fine to take an extended break from her. You don't have to say I'm never speaking to you again, or even tell yourself how long it will be for - just take a break and don't feel guilty. Manage yourself for your mental health! And hugs - it's not a fun situation at all.
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I can't thank you all enough for your replies. Most of the time when I talk about my mom to people, they don't get it because they can't truly relate. They think I'm just talking about the normal "my mom is driving me crazy" things, but it goes so much more beyond that, and it is lonely and I feel helpless to be in this place alone most of the time.
I feel as though I've tried emotional distance .... I go long periods of time without seeing her, then when I do see her, I avoid touchy subjects, ignore her irritating comments as much as possible, and am pretty much stoic. But because I'm not lovey dovey to her, because I'm not asking her questions, because I'm not acting like a daughter should be, she burns up inside and demands to know why I'm so cold. So I can't win! I can't pretend to be nice to someone I don't like - I don't have it in me, it makes me want to vomit. Right now though emotional distance is probably the only thing I can somewhat do to try to get through situations with her.
Basically, part of the story is, she was in a tumultuous relationship with her second husband for about 15+ years. It was rocky from the beginning but I think she was deathly scared of being alone. She clung to him because she said he was so “capable”, he knew how to do everything and anything (whereas she struggled with how to do anything - computers, taxes, you name it - she was always the victim and needed the help of a man.) But he was also a cheater, a miser, and perverted old man. Yet she was able to overlook those things because he was so “capable”. She valued that over everything else. Can anyone understand this ? Because I can’t. And this is when I had no more respect for her. She would vent to me about him and their sexual issues in the beginning and after about the 100th time I would tell her to just leave him but I realized that she had no intention of doing anything about it , she just wanted to vent. Now I did not grow up in a family that spoke openly about these things at all - nothing that mattered was ever spoken about in my childhood, no “I love yous” , nothing. Everything was unspoken or assumed. So now, in my adulthood, she wants to vent to me about her sexual issues with her husband ….who would be ok with this ? I was not ok with it and told her to stop. To please find a friend or someone else she could talk about it with. But she thinks that “family” is the best to talk to about it because it’s so “private”. WTF ??? I just feel that is so f**cking selfish of her to want to unload her shit onto me and now place her burdens onto me to worry about. I understand the need to vent - believe me. I’d be a nutcase if I couldn’t vent to my girlfriends but this is a whole different thing. Because when a mother tells a daughter that she is hurting or upset or whatever it doesn’t just go in one ear and out the other ! It f**cking stays with you ! She doesn’t get it. She is totally perplexed as to why it bothered me so much for me to hear about all of her sexual issues and why it would cause me any worry. She doesn’t get that after hearing all that shit, it made me feel helpless because I would hear all the shit and then have to watch her just stay in the relationship. But after a long time, I told myself that she made her choice and I’m not going to let it take an emotional toll on me anymore and tried to move on and distance myself from her. But I resented her for sure. And now they are divorced and she is alone all over again and she is depressed and miserable and longing for love, but I have none to give because she burned that bridge long ago.
Ever since she has been with him, she has become manipulative and overly dramatic. She does things for attention and wastes my f**cking time. She’s like the boy who cried wolf, so now nothing phases me anymore and it’s hard for me to believe what she’s saying most of the time and it makes her burn with anger. When we talked on the phone in the past, and it ended up in a screaming match, I started hanging up on her. I was really hard to do at first because I just don’t do that to people, but it became easier and easier. Sometimes I would just put the phone down and walk away and come back a few minutes later and she would still be rambling on about something (usually complaining about something). I think she has been emotionally traumatized from that relationship (on top of her already existing psychological issues) and is expecting me to pick up the pieces and “be there” for her now. But I won’t. Because among other reasons, that expectation is ludicrous.
I’ve even thought that maybe she is possessed by an evil spirt and how would I go about getting her exorcised ? Sighhhh.
I know this is an extremely long post. Sorry, and thank you to those who actually read it…
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I’m sorry you have to go through this. I can relate. My mom is very selfish. Anyone who has met my mom would say she is super nice and she is but there’s way more behind closed doors. She is very judgemental whether she knows she is or not. She showed up at the hospital when my daughter had her tonsils out and my doctors had specifically said no visitors. I had to kick her out quite sternly in front of my daughter. And recently she visited our house and dropped a bomb right before she was leaving that she had a bad stomach bug. This was after she had kissed and manhandled my infant. And now we have a severe stomach bug running though our house. Infant included. I have tempted to cut off all communication with her but my husband says that I should tolerate her for the kids. The kids love her. It sucks not having that mother daughter relationship I see my friends have. I’m not sure if any advice to give because I feel like I’m in the same boat as you. For myself I am going to try and express what I want and need and it’s up to her to respect that. Good luck.
It is comforting to know someone else out there knows what I am going through even in the slightest... I feel as though none of my friends understand because their situations are just not the same. You are right, my mom probably doesn't hate me .... I know she is probably just immensely hurt. But I think a lot of her hurt comes from her failed second marriage and she is directing it towards me. She acts like I've done something terrible to her when in actuality her ex-husband was a poor excuse for a human being and yet she still pines over him and accuses me of being a rotten daughter. I wish I could do like you and enjoy the parts of her that I love, but right now, there isn't much to love =\ I tried emailing with her long ago , I'm talking mile-long emails, and while it helped us to express our feelings without yelling at each other, in the end it didn't amount to anything. I've reached the point where I'm done with it all. Done with trying to communicate because I feel it is futile. I don't allow her to call me because (1) she takes 30 mins to 1 hour to get to her point, and (2) we always end up screaming at each other. So I make her text me, but now she refuses to do that. I do invite her to my son's events but I feel like even if she comes, she's not really present. She's preoccupied with whatever crises she has going on. She comes late to all his birthday parties and events, she complains about every restaurant we go to. How do you enjoy a person like that ? I feel like instead of enjoying my son, she tries to parent him and that pushes all my buttons. The only thing I prevent her from doing with him is driving him anywhere because of safety concerns (which she will of course take offense to). I can't fight with her anymore but I also can't totally abandon her, so I feel like I'm living in Hell. This is utter Hell for me.
I really like @Mama Bird: advice. I also try to think of my mom like a coworker that I didn’t choose to work with but my life would be easier if I can do so peacefully even if it means holding some things inside. I’ve also started trying to take objective note of the things that she does that drive me away so I can avoid doing that with my kids. It helps me to not take it personally if I can see it as a lesson in how to be a better mom.
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