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@looch:
that a teacher at a public school makes that much. Not that I think they don't deserve it. But the most common complaint of teachers in the public sector is how overworked and underpaid they are. But I'm guessing this pay range is not the norm. -
@regberadaisy: It's cost of living. it's expensive to live where I do, so if you don't pay people, they can't live here and we don't have teachers, fire fighters, etc. Trust me, it's not that much when you look at it over all expenses. But the point is not the figure. It's that the salary is comparable to other private sector jobs.
That is also not the starting salary, it's the range that most teachers top out at when they're ready to retire, so that's the amount that has to be paid out year over year via the pension.
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@looch: the NYC area (and honestly, union areas) must be different. Where I live teacher salaries are not comparable to other professional saleries.
ETA: I would much prefer we phase out pensions as I agree with you. The problem is these teachers spent their lives expecting it and don't have other savings.
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This is a couple years old, but this article has a map that shows the average annual salary for teachers by state. It's higher that I thought it would be
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/12/15/how-much-teachers-get-paid-state-by-state/ -
@Mrs. Lion: Of course they're different and can't really be compared. I think it's important when you're making a decision that you have all the information and in my area, the issue of the moment is the ballooing cost of the pensions and how we have to constantly cap the current operating budget. It's eye opening (I joined a facebook group for parents of the school system in my town and it's been a great source for information).
Oh, and I believe in fair wages for everyone, with the ability to save for things like retirement, college, etc. It's not that I think we pay teachers too much, it's that people should be given the tools to save on their own.
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@aprild: color me surprised. My (public) districts median pay range for teachers is almost 80K. We do NOT have a high cost is living. That is WAY more than what I make. WAY more!
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@regberadaisy: surprising, isn't it?
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@looch: So I'm trying to understand how pensions work, and it looks like it can vary by state. Is it that a small percentage gets taken out of the teacher's salary, and the school matches it, and then that turns into the pension? Also, it looks like teachers don't pay social security tax like the private sector would?
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@aprild: One thing to consider is that recently there have been a lot of salary freezes and restructuring of compensation plans in specific districts and charters that leave a sizeable chunk of US teachers (myself included) in the upper 20s - min 30s range.
As far as year round school goes, I've taught in Japan, the US and New Zealand. I like NZ's structure of 10/2/10/2/10/2/10/6 the best. There is still a sizeable summer and there are very regular breaks throughout the school year.
My current school trades longer school days for more breaks (we have 15 less days and about an extra hour a day). We get a good number of breaks in the school year, but I'd happily trade a few weeks of summer for shorter school days - the children are exhausted by the end of the day and the last hour is like pulling teeth. Plus I get very limited time with DD when school is in session.
I'd happily swap my pension for a 401k and the ability to cointribute to social security. So long as my money itself isn't wiped - I pay 13% in.
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@farawayyama: how long is the day?
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@aprild: I can't find a doc for teachers, but according to the firefighters pension plan doc, it's 7% per year to be contributed by the employee and that gets matched by the employer. But I am no expert on this at all, I'd love to ask a teacher how it really works and what their take home pay is versus what the stated rate is. That's where the rubber meets the road, and would go a long way in easing the concerns of homeowners and increased tax burdens. Everyone feels they're paying more and getting less services.
There are also (as I understand it) options on how you want to be paid out. My dad is a retired municpal worker and he elected to lower his annual payout so that in the event he dies, the payments continue to my mother. You also have the option not to do that, so you get a higher payout, but when you die, the payments stop.
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@looch: I found this article which is helpful: http://ed100.org/teachers/pensions/
It looks like there are incentives to teach longer, and for teachers that do, the pension increases beyond just matching.
An example: California teachers pay into their STRS system through an 8.15% withholding on gross wages (a rate higher than Social Security’s 6.2% but less than STRS rates in other states; in Louisiana the withholding rate exceeds 20%). In return, in an average retirement lifetime of thirty years, CalSTRS has historically paid back about five or six times what teachers have put in, adjusted for inflation.
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@regberadaisy: We have staggered arrival and departures so depending on when they arrive/depart, they are in school for between 7 hours and 7 hours 45 minutes. All but 30 minutes of that is instructional time. We do have a lot more specials, e.g. art/yoga/PE etc, but it is still a really long day for the kids.
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@looch: @regbetadaisy::
Teachers just outside NYC are paid that well because the cost of living is so high (especially home prices) and because a Master's degree is required by NY and NJ. The schools are also some of the highest performing in the country, so it's a competitive market for teachers.
Yes, I'm a well-paid teacher, but most of my friends work in the private sector, don't have a masters degree, and make at least50%-100% more in salary. Having a pension makes me feel more secure about my family's future.
I love my job, take great pride in it, and am proud to have a union too.
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@looch: I'm just catching up on this thread. Maybe it's different in your state, or your school district, but in MY school district, our pensions are funded by us, with paycheck deductions. There is supposed to be money thrown in by the state government, but it's been national news that our state. NJ, has not been putting in their part of the pension, for years.
Unlike my husband, who gets a 401k match, we get nothing except the money we contribute and that the state is supposed to contribute but hasn't.
And in many states, teachers aren't allowed to withdraw social security, even if they paid into it for say, 20 years and then switched into teaching after a career change for an additional 25 years. If they want to draw their pension, they can't draw their own SS or their deceased spouses SS. Total bullshit, if you ask me.
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I'm not reading all the comments but in response to your original question...I've taught at a year round school ever since I've become a teacher, over 15 years and I've even attended a year-round conference which looked at issues related to this type of schedule.
It allows for a nice break after a quarter-long chunk of curriculum (9weeks or about 40-45 days here). Our breaks are anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks if you round up.
We love it because we can regroup, rest, and strategize. As a teacher, we get a much needed rest as well. Like with sabbatical, you come back with new eyes, experiences, learning (yes, we use our free time for institutes, symposiums, reading, and lesson planning-have you seen Pinterest lately?- websites for teachers). We also know students and parents love the breaks. I think the time lost (two hours as things wind down before going on break 3 times a year --summer break doesn't count bc everyone gets that) is actually worthwhile. Kids can even do enrichment camps, tutoring or add fun things to their schedule throughout the school year. Hmmm what don't I like? Summers are short. But that's ok! I think the long summers are when learning is lost a bit, boredom and trouble sets in....it makes it that much harder to start back in. Having a year round school schedule makes the transition to a new grade, pretty seamless and less jarring, since the breaks are of 'normal' year round length.ETA: We used to have intersession classes, some schools still do this, where kids could take multi-age or topic specific enrichment or remedial classes during the break for added opportunity to learning.
We love it because we can regroup, rest, and strategize. As a teacher, we get a much needed rest as well. Like with sabbatical, you come back with new eyes, experiences, learning (yes, we use our free time for institutes, symposiums, reading, and lesson planning-have you seen Pinterest lately?- websites for teachers). We also know students and parents love the breaks. I think the time lost (two hours as things wind down before going on break 3 times a year --summer break doesn't count bc everyone gets that) is actually worthwhile. Kids can even do enrichment camps, tutoring or add fun things to their schedule throughout the school year. Hmmm what don't I like? Summers are short. But that's ok! I think the long summers are when learning is lost a bit, boredom and trouble sets in....it makes it that much harder to start back in. Having a year round school schedule makes the transition to a new grade, pretty seamless and less jarring, since the breaks are of 'normal' year round length.
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