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  1. lady baltimore

    persimmon / 1196 posts

    @matador84: I'd be upset about the money, I'd be irate about the lying. I, too, would demand to see the statements, and insist on full transparency going forward. I think couples counseling (to talk about the breakdown in communication) and individual counseling for DH (to address whatever drove him to spend/lie) would be in order.

    Out of curiosity, how did you think the dental work got paid for? If we had a $10,000 expense come up, I would know where that money was coming from, and if it never did.

  2. Mrs. J

    pomelo / 5132 posts

    I would be very upset because I trusted him with our finances. I wouldn't jump to divorce, though.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think his separate credit card affects your score. If it were in both your names, that would be different? Anything that's joint affects you both. Unfortunately, his credit score would ruin your chances of a bigger house, more likely than not, since they look at both for a mortgage.

    I am so sorry you're going through this

  3. snowjewelz

    wonderful kiwi / 23653 posts

    I would be so upset initially for the sheer fact that there is no honesty/transparency in our marriage. I would def flip out over the $ too!!

  4. Mrs. Pickle

    blogger / wonderful cherry / 21628 posts

    I'm sorry this happened. My gut reaction is the same as Truth Bombs. Before my husband and I were engaged he confessed to me that he had a good amount of debt (around 30k I think). He was so scared to tell me, but went ahead and did it because he knew he wanted to propose and wanted me to have all the facts before hand. It terrified me because I didn't have any debt, but we figured out a plan and were able to pay it off before our wedding day 2 years later. So if he was hiding debt from me now it would be such a blow. I think figuring out why he felt the need to hide it from you is key.

  5. coopsmama

    cantaloupe / 6059 posts

    So sorry you had to discover this in such a poor way.

    If it were me, I'd seek out counseling to figure out why our relationship is such that he felt he couldn't discuss the debt with me. Provided the money hadn't been going to illegal activities or gambling which would bring up other issues entirely, we'd figure out a plan and make changes or seek extra ways to make more money and pay it off. At this point I think you should take over ALL of the finances in your family and honestly feel that joint accounts going forward could be a better option as it leads to more accountability in a marriage. And obviously, he should not have access to credit cards from this point forward but it sounds like you took care of that which is a great stepping stone.

    This is one of those "for worse" moments we promise in our wedding vows when we get married. And it sucks. And I'm sorry for that. But I know you guys will be able to get through this if he'll be open and honest with his finances moving forward.

  6. Mamasig

    pomegranate / 3565 posts

    Ok, so I think it totally sucks he lied. I think more info is needed as to what the money was used for exactly. Gambling, drugs, prostitutes? Was this just debt built up over time he didn't mention? To me that's the issue.

    It also seems like y'all have everything separately? Maybe it's time for joint accounts.

  7. Mamasig

    pomegranate / 3565 posts

    @Truth Bombs: I agree that $20,000 isn't "that" much. I underwrite commercial loans for a living and look credit bureaus every day. People minimal to zero consumer debt are definitely the minority.

  8. Mrs. Champagne

    coconut / 8483 posts

    I think if it slowly built up over time and half f it was dental work and he's been making payments... I would be upset but not devastated. It sounds like maybe things just got away from him.

    I would recommend taking over all the bills though. I'm sorry you are going through this.

  9. cheert16

    nectarine / 2631 posts

    @Mrs. Champagne: this!

  10. dc yoga bee

    grapefruit / 4770 posts

    Honestly, the first thing I would do is retain counsel and find out if I lived in a community property state or not, and what that meant as far as whether I personally was legally on the hook or not. Then, I would try counseling. Yes, in that order. But, I also practiced family law, so I personally have seen this get very messy.

  11. Madison43

    persimmon / 1483 posts

    It's sucks, but based on the circumstances I don't think divorce would even cross my mind. If half of the balance is dental work and the other $10k was accumulated over 10 years, that's really not a lot of annual accumulation. Out of curiousity, how did you think he paid for the dental work? it would be a much bigger deal to me if he lied about how he was paying for things and was secretly putting them on a credit card I didn't know about. It would also be a bigger deal to me if the balance was in default and he didn't tell me.

  12. Amorini

    persimmon / 1132 posts

    @matador84: Oh, no. My deepest sympathies. Feel the sincerest hugs of a woman who has been there. I felt utter betrayal. I was devastated. It's a long story, but DH took out home equity loans on a property he owned prior to us getting married (so it remained hidden from me). The sum was about the same. We are still together but it has been quite a journey and I did consider leaving him.

    Long story short, he wasn't paying for gambling or a second family or anything crazy. He liked spending money (made him feel good and avoid bad feelings) and he also liked portraying himself as someone who could pay bills and run the finances (made him feel good to be a provider). We were newly married, living in his country and hadn't yet joined our finances. So it was easy to hide because I wasn't running the finances like I am now. It all came out when we changed countries and I started running our finances. Sadly, his magical thinking about debt did not account for that scenario, so it all came to the surface. I felt very stupid for not seeing it sooner. I learned then that he had a history of money problems and his dad bailed him out a few times.

    To some people, hidden debt is a big deal. To others, it's not. The important thing is what it is to you. You are the one living your circumstances. You have every right to wake up and feel differently than you did yesterday. You may feel differently tomorrow and even two weeks from now.

    Perhaps look up debt addiction / debtors anonymous and start to see if any of the information resonates with you and your husband. The secrecy, the shame, the feelings behind why he had to hide that accumulation of debt -- and why he was doing it in the first place -- are very important things to look at. Not every word of "debt addiction" matches my husband, but he does agree he has some major tendencies. Now that there is transparency and healing between us, he can recognize his weaknesses and be accountable and supported in our marriage. Even after about five years since our marital ground zero, my husband has some old "debt addiction" patterns that pop up and scare me, so we still have to work through it each time.

    I concur with others about counseling, separating finances and not taking on his debt as your own. My counselor at the time advised me to let him deal with it. He was willing to do whatever it took but acted helpless, so it was really hard for me to not take over. In hindsight, he had some MAJOR things to learn and face about himself and his inner emotional life which he could only learn my being 100% responsible for the debt. It is a fine line to walk (taking over vs letting him be responsible for what he has done). You are only human and are not expected to know what to do, so be gentle with yourself and be honest with yourself, too.

    One last piece of advice is to have him do a credit report so you can make sure there isn't any other hidden debt.

    ...sending more hugs...

  13. Ree723

    grapefruit / 4819 posts

    @Mrs. Champagne: I agree with this!

    One of my family members got into a similar situation - she and her DH started a business together with a few other people. The business ended up folding and the majority of the debt was left in her name. Her DH obviously knew about it as he was a partner in the business, but somehow things spiralled out of control with her debt and she ended having to max out her credit cards to pay it off. But of course then she couldn't pay the credit cards off so she was racking up massive interest charges etc, All told, the initial $50K debit ballooned to a $100K debt and she didn't tell her husband because she was embarrassed, even though the initial debt was his responsibility as well. Their relationship did end in divorce but there were a lot of other factors at play.

    The bottom line is that whilst it would be shocking and extremely upsetting, I think it's important to get to the bottom of what happened and why it wasn't disclosed, before making any rash decisions. Having been close to someone who went through this situation has shown me just how easy it is for things to spiral out of control...

    Hugs @matador84: I hope you guys are able to work through things and get past this.

  14. HLK208

    pineapple / 12234 posts

    I'm so sorry

    I would go to counseling but I wouldn't consider divorce. Life happens...it's expensive but he shouldn't be secretive about it.

  15. MOMTOLITTLEB

    persimmon / 1188 posts

    I would want to go to counseling and change how we manage our money but I don't think it's grounds for divorce. It would suck but we could get out of it by living frugally for awhile, maybe he could get a part time job. I'd be really curious what he spent that money on with me having no idea, that might affect my reaction.

  16. renee

    cherry / 181 posts

    I would get counseling, but would not consider divorce. I would be upset, but would know that it was probably eating him alive for years. It's one of those things that once you don't disclose, how do you tell someone? Especially fearing that they may leave you?

    Good luck. This is a horrible situation and I hope everything works out for you and your family.

  17. Meow

    cherry / 148 posts

    @matador84: I had a mountain of CC debt up until a few years ago. It was a combination of being brokeass in my 20s due to a shit ton of student loan debt, low paying job (I worked really hard but starting pay in my industry is criminally low) and living beyond my means. It started in the middle of my college years and continued until I was in my late 20s. At my worst point I think it was at about $15k. My then bf, now husband didn't know about it. I think I was ashamed and embarrassed to admit to anyone I had so much debt, let alone to my bf who was so responsible. I think at some point I mentioned that I had CC debt but didn't disclose the sum.

    When we were reaching the point of getting married I didn't want to hide this secret from him so I came up with this plan to get my act together - I seeked help from consumer credit counseling services. They have regional branches all over the country, and you have to beware that you're using the legit nonprofit service not those scammy shady ones that require you to put down a large sum for down payment, etc. What they did was negotiate a fixed low APR (about 5-6% at the time I used their service) with each individual bank and also waive all the fees you may have accrued. Then they work out a payment plan for you. You have to close the account as part of the plan but I actually liked that aspect of it because it forced me to close the account and not spend. (As any serial CC users may know... physically not possessing the card is totally not a deterrent.) I had my debt completely paid off by the time my husband and I were newly weds.

    Being forced to not have access to any CC is what I needed to get my butt in shape... I felt like I had no control or discipline otherwise. And CC banks wouldn't negotiate a lower APR with me so I needed CCCS to do that on my behalf. Otherwise, my monthly payments were going towards just the interest and I was going nowhere paying down the principal.

    I don't know if I necessarily agree with others about the joint account thing. Not putting down any other couples for doing that if that works for them. But with serial CC abusers I think there's an underlying spending problem that being liable to someone else won't solve. I say this purely cause I was one as is my brother right now. I bring him up cause he's also married with massive CC debt (much larger than your husband's) and I don't think his wife knows the extent of it. She knew of it when they first got married but I think he continued doing it behind her back. (I only know of it because he called our mom to ask to borrow $$$ while I was with her.) So unless the person decides to stop the behavior on their own, they will find many many secret ways to keep on doing it... like my brother. He even gets all his packages (clothing, gadgets, etc.) shipped to his work so family wouldn't know. My DH and I keep our money separate but it's not because we don't trust each other, it's because we trust each other. If that makes sense. It's a trust issue like many others have said, and I can totally understand why you might be feeling devastated, angry and betrayed.

  18. matador84

    papaya / 10560 posts

    Thanks for the support. I have a lot of thoughts after reading.

    I do think counseling will be sought. It's an issue we need to work through together to resolve.
    We both already work full time so the option of another job isn't possible, but I'm going to explore some side work online. Because of us both working full time, we can live on one income so hopefully that will allow us to pay down the debt as quickly as possible.

    He mentioned when I talked to him about it last night how surprised he was I didn't blow up. I guess the thing is what's done is done. There are still answers I want, so hopefully we can talk about that when the kids go down for a nap.

    As far as the dental work-I know it's legit and how much it cost because I saved the receipts to add to our medical expense file. It wasn't covered by insurance because it was periodontal, thus having 4 teeth reimplanted, fake teeth to have while the bone regrew and the surgeries to implant was close to 10K.

    Ugh. I'm just dying about it, but had I not opened the wrong piece of mail I just think how I would have probably never known.

  19. matador84

    papaya / 10560 posts

    @Meow: yes that makes total sense. I think I will see if bank can negotiate a lower apr (I have to go today anyway to take care of the identity thing).

    I'm not sure if I still want a joint account. I'm going to have to think about that one.

  20. DesertDreams88

    grapefruit / 4361 posts

    I would freak out. That's almost a year's take home salary for either one of us, and we have a strict no CC debt policy. We barely keep our heads above water with 50K in student loans and a mortgage.

    Huge, huge, huge trust issue for me. Definitely relational and financial conseling. I'd probably even sign him up for a credit monitoring service so that we'd / I'd get notified if any new accounts were opened.

    Lastly, in my relationship, no matter how I handled it my DH would be very ashamed and feel punished by me, which I DON'T want. This situation has a tendency to take on an authority/wrongdoer scenario, and I think the relational counseling would be imperative to moving towards a partnership and "making things right" scenario.

    I think the relational counseling could help you both explore what motivated him to do this... shame? Not wanting to upset you with spending? Not thing it's a big deal? Spending addiction/hobby? Etc

  21. dc yoga bee

    grapefruit / 4770 posts

    @matador84: I think you are handling this really well, and I'm sorry you're going through this. Again, having a joint account or not may not matter depending on your state (you may sill be liable), so it's worth looking into.

  22. Freckles

    honeydew / 7444 posts

    @matador84: I think you are handling this really well. I don't think I would go the route of divorce, a bit extreme in this case. but it doesn't seem as if you can trust him to deal with his finances on his own. What are your reasons for not wanting to go the joint account route? Or at least with you overseeing the family finances for a while?

  23. gingerbebe

    cantaloupe / 6131 posts

    This is all under the assumption that his debt wasn't to pay for anything sketchy or feed another type of addiction, but I tend to disagree with others about making this "his debt." If it were me, I make it "our debt." The reasoning? The fact that it was "his debt" is what got the situation to this point. It was little stuff here and there for him, it was carried over from before you guys were married, it was harmless stuff that made him feel good momentarily, it was his teeth, it was his minimum payments every month - no big deal. That kind of separate ME account created this problem. Making it OUR debt makes him doubly accountable for the fact that he just royally screwed this family over. He's going to see you bust your ass at work and know that every penny you make over the next year is going to his laziness and selfish behavior instead of whatever else you would have rather spent the money on. If you castigate him and tell him to go off and pay for it himself while stewing in resentment, its just might discourage him further and set a precedent where he's going to instinctively try to hide things even more from you in the future. If this is the consequence for screwing up, what is the incentive to be honest? Or even worse, maybe he gets overwhelmed and thinks he wont ever be able to fix it and that he's a terrible dad and husband and loses confidence in himself and things get tougher?

    I have a feeling that if half of the debt was dental work and the other 10K was accumulated over 10 years, the $100-ish a month he put on the credit card was little stuff like buying a round of shots for his buddies, gifts here and there, eating out, electronics, or something that made him feel good about himself momentarily. If I'm right, I think what y'all really need is to get on the same page about budgeting and stick to it.

    First, I'd recommend you pull credit reports for both of you to make sure you have the FULL picture of your finances. Pull the statements from DH's credit card and take a look at what he's spending his money on. Again, assuming its not for some monthly membership to a porn or gaming website, if its things like eating out or sporting events, budget in some fun money for both of you every month. I'd recommend something like Dave Ramsey where you sit down every month and write a pen and paper budget (he has forms on his site you can print out) and you give every dollar a name and destination. That way everyone knows where the money is going and you stick to it. We set up a monthly budget and then input it into Mint.com. You can keep your eye on things via a phone app or by computer and it will email you if you exceed your budget in some category. Other bees swear by YNAB. Whatever it is, do it.

    I don't necessarily think you taking over the finances yourself is going to fix the issue either. It needs to be a joint thing - hence, everyone sits together every month and writes a budget together. By seeing how things have to be budgeted to pay off his debt, he's going to see and feel why the grocery budget needs to be lean or why a family vacation is going to have to be slashed to a weekend staycation, etc.

    I think a helpful thing for YOU might be to write your thoughts out. Feel what you feel. While my DH hasn't created a debt problem for me, we've had our own "surprise" issues come up in our marriage that definitely made me feel super betrayed and hurt and resentful and required a lot of hard work on both our parts to get over. One thing that really helped me and nailed home to DH the extent of my pain was to write a "This is how I feel" letter where I bullet pointed out exactly all the things his actions made me feel. Having that letter and remembering the words really focused DH to be really transparent and take lots of precautions to never let me feel that way again. This letter could include all the things you wish that money had gone for. That if he had spent the last 10 years SAVING $20K for his family it could have meant x, y, and z. That it makes you mad you're going to have to work for Citibank for the next year. Etc. But at the end of the letter, also write the reasons why you want to move forward with him TOGETHER on how to fix it. Because we have two beautiful daughters who deserve parents to love each other and are willing to make sacrifices to make their future secure. Because your marriage is stronger than a $20K mistake. Because you'd rather put in 1 year of shitty hard work to have 40 happier ones with him. Things like that. Hold him accountable, but give him motivation and encouragement to never let this happen again.

    Hugs to you. I really do know how it feels - my parents had terrible financial issues when I was growing up largely due to my dad's selfish behavior and I know how terrible it made all of our lives. And I know what it feels like to have your husband bring you some terrible problem that had nothing to do with you after marriage and how crazymaking it is to have to be responsible for it. But you can do it, and it can make your marriage stronger for it.

  24. mrscobee

    clementine / 903 posts

    @gingerbebe: I think this is all great advice and probably what I would try to do in this situation. I would be so upset but not get a divorce (unless the funds were paying for questionable activities).

  25. Mrs. Pen

    blogger / wonderful cherry / 21616 posts


    This comment has been deleted by the original poster.

  26. Mrs Green Grass

    pomelo / 5628 posts

    Wow, it surprises that that many people would consider divorce. Is ouldnt. But it's a major trust issue and I imaginr its not that hard to stop either. I bet he feels really ashamed (and has for some time). He might be glad that it's out in the open, however bad.

    I think you are more than justified to see everything and maybe create some safeguards against him opening a new account... I'm sure it's going to take a while for you to process and I'm sorry you're going through it!

  27. Chuckles

    persimmon / 1495 posts

    One thought I have is that, although 10K in debt isn't crazy to rack up over the course of 10 years, if a person already knows that they secretly have 10K in debt, the reasonable thing to do is be extremely careful with money and work to pay it down, not continue to accumulate more debt. Is a lot of the additional debt from interest on the dental work? If not, then there are certainly other spending issues that should be addressed.

  28. Mrs. High Heels

    blogger / eggplant / 11551 posts

    I'm so sorry you're dealing with this! I wouldn't consider divorce unless the debt was used on questionable activities. $10k in dental work wouldn't fall under that for me, and I can see how the additional $10k could be racked up through little things here and there over the course of 10 years + the interest each month from not paying off the balance in full.

    I'm just wondering why he couldn't come to you with this sooner if this money wasn't spent on questionable things. Not only is this a breach of trust, but I would be extremely hurt that he felt he couldn't talk to me openly about this. There's something deeper here - are there control issues in the relationship over money? Does he have a spending problem or shopping addiction?

    I really like the advice Gingerbebe gave!

  29. Mrs. Coral

    clementine / 812 posts

    @matador84: Don't worry, his decisions will not affect your credit as long as it was not a joint credit card. I do believe PP was mistaken when mentioning that. Even though you are married, you still have your own credit. Yes, joint accounts affect it, but it does not sound like this is a joint account.

    I agree that you should make him run a credit report so you can confirm this is the only thing he was hiding. I would also get to the bottom of what he was spending it on. Did you see an material goods other than the dental work? If my DH betrayed my trust like this, I would demand to see the statements to ensure he isn't hiding what he spent the money on.

    I'm so sorry.

    ETA: what I meant to say is that the thing he is spending the $ on could be another underlying issue, or could help to make counseling more effective.

  30. Grace

    cantaloupe / 6730 posts

    I've been in that much debt in my 20s. It was a combo of having a car that broke all the time, trips with friends (because I didn't want to admit to them that I couldn't afford anything fun), not having a roommate anymore and little things. I was very ashamed of that debt and the weight it put on my shoulders was huge. I really dreaded telling DH about it before we got married and I was really vague about the amount for a long time. The thing is, admiting that debt just made me feel like I was some stupid child who wasn't enough of an adult to keep my finances together. I'm smart. I'm supposed to know how to not go in the hole.

    Now that the cat's out of the bag, you have to find out where he stands. Is he like me and never wants to go in debt again? Or is he in denial and doesn't realise that things need to change? I think that will dictate what your next steps should be.

    Lastly, I think Gingerbee's advice is wonderful. She's right about feeling accountable to the family for everything that is spent. I'd feel horrible if DH had to bale me out again and it's a great incentive to stay on top of things. We both have an allowance every month and it's much easier to stay in that limit because we have a budget (vs CC which can seem to be unlimited). I also limit the use of my CC now - it really is the devil.

  31. 2littlepumpkins

    grapefruit / 4455 posts

    My reaction honestly would probably depend on a) why he was in so much debt, b) why he didn't tell me and c) how much money/income we had to pay it off. In this case I don't think I would consider divorce over it, but I'd be upset. Medical/dental bills can pile up FAST though, so since that's about half of it, I'd be more inclined to forgive... Especially since the rest of it was over ten years and wih interest it doesn't sound like he just lived extremely extravagantly... I think. I hope it all works out for you! Sorry you're going through this, it sounds very stressful!

  32. mrsrugbee

    apricot / 347 posts

    In my mind that's a lie on par with cheating. I would be devastated and feel completely betrayed. We would have to get through it but it would take a lot to rebuild the trust.

  33. IRunForFun

    pomelo / 5509 posts

    I would probably focus less on the financial implications (you have a plan figured out for that already) and start focusing on the "whys" of the situation. Why did he allow so much debt to accumulate? Why did he feel he had to hide it from you? Why didn't he come to you when it first started snowballing so you could pay it off? Why did he spend money when he already knew about the debt? Etc. If you can get to the root of the motivation behind those behaviors you have a better chance of trying to understand him so you can fix the relationship. The debt is there and you can't go back and change that now, the only thing you can change is both of your behaviors to prevent it from happening again.

  34. IRunForFun

    pomelo / 5509 posts

    @Mamasig: I understand what you're saying about $20k not being "that much" - it's all relative, right? - but for someone who thought they had absolutely no debt at all to pay off, that's a huge number. It seems like the amount doesn't really matter in this case, whether it's $20k or $200k, it's the shock and deceit.

  35. LovelyPlum

    eggplant / 11408 posts

    @matador84: I'm so sorry. I come from a family where a lot of people struggle with debt. It is never one big thing or extravagant purchases. My mom's started with dental work, and it kinda snowballed from there.

    Divorce wouldn't be on my radar, at least not for a good long while. I agree with @clover: he probaby thought he could handle it, but that kind of debt gets out of hand very fast. I would be hurt and angry, but his first gesture is a good one. I think I would insist on marriage counseling and financial counseling/education and see where that led us.

    Huge hugs

  36. LovelyPlum

    eggplant / 11408 posts

    @Meow: we used and LOVED CCCS, as well!

  37. Mrs. Jacks

    blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts

    I sent a wall message matador... But I wanted to address in general that I think if someone is hiding that much debt that it's a symptom of a larger pattern of ignoring issues on the part of the person who accrues the debt and doesn't share the info openly with their partner. It doesn't mean that it's insurmountable... Just that the couple has to get to the root of the problem... And that part is never just about the money.

  38. MrsKoala

    cantaloupe / 6869 posts


    This comment has been deleted by the original poster.

  39. catomd00

    grapefruit / 4418 posts

    @Truth Bombs: what exactly is your point in responding to me? It does not help the op in any way. She asked for people's thoughts, I gave mine. When you take out the 10k it's much less then a car payment. It's not like he racked up hundreds of thousands. My sister racked up 10k in college and paid it off pretty quickly on a very small income. And like I said, the reaction depends on a lot of factors here that weren't stated in the post.

  40. jaguar

    pomegranate / 3764 posts

    I think I'd be wondering what the underlying issues were behind the secrecy in the first place, as money can be earned and repaid, but the problems are what need/can be worked on. Good luck!

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