So I'm pretty sure the cause is a shitty latch that I don't know how to fix, but recently I've noticed that after nursing (or even after pumping), the ends of my nipples turn white and then slowly go back to pink. I've actually noticed it on both sides, although Xander only has a really bad latch on one side... any ideas?
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@T.H.O.U.: Thanks for the link! Based on that, it sounds like I have blanching due to vasospasm, because the white shows up minutes after I finish nursing or pumping... but I'm not really sure how to fix it...
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@Adira: I don't know. Do you think its just normal blanching? I think the vasospasm is when they just turn white on their own.
The most common reason for nipple blanching is that that baby is compressing the nipple while nursing. This can be due to:
a shallow latch (the most common problem)
When blanching is due to baby’s compression of the nipple, the nipple is white and often misformed (flattened, creased, pointed, etc.) immediately upon coming out of baby’s mouth.
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@T.H.O.U.: Well, I do think probably part of the problem is his latch. One nipple always comes out squished and I know we have a latching problem with that one. But it's not white when it comes out - it turns white minutes later. And when I pump, it's not misformed and turned white minutes later. And the other nipple I feel like we have a decent latch and it doesn't come out of his mouth all squished (unless he rips off it like an asshole) and that one still turns white (after pumping as well).
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@T.H.O.U.: @Adira: Thanks for this! I think I might have blanching. It isn't every time, since sometimes she has a better latch. And I get pains after feeding but it doesn't happen when I pump.
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@T.H.O.U.: Thanks for the links!
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I have vasospasm. I literally looked up every other cause and then an LC confirmed that it was.
It was compounded with a crappy latch on one side that I could never correct due to anatomy - even with a crap latch he was effectively transfering milk.
He grew into his latch and I think I just learned to deal with the vasospasm - I don't notice it as much anymore.
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I had that, it was vasospasms. I still get it when he has a lazy latch. Do your nipples ache when you're cold? I took calcium/magnesium supplements but its gotten better naturally as lo's mouth got bigger and his latch improved.
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@ladyfingers: Hmm... yes, I think so. But not a TON - well, now they ache a ton, haha. But that seems more constant and not just when cold now, haha.
What's weird is that he seems to latch just fine on one side and terribly on the other! I know my breasts are a little lopsided, but I don't understand how it would affect his latch so much. Ugh! If I do stick with breastfeeding, I do hope it gets better as he gets bigger!
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I have noticed nipple blanching the past few days...thought I had thrush b/c of the boob pain, but it went away when I switched BF positions. Would that help you? Like if you switch to football instead of cradle (or whatever), then he'd be sucking from a different angle at least. Lately LO has been latching on and pulling away while attached, trying to rip my nipple off...so I think maybe that's where my problems come from, yikes.
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@tororojo: Xander is doing the same thing! Wrenching away while latched and hurting my nipple pretty bad.
I've tried switching positions, but everything I try still hurts so... I don't really know! Ugh.
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@Adira: Definitely vasospams...I had them too because Lo's latch was terrible. I took magnesium and calcium for about two weeks and they went away and never came back. Which side does he latch poorly on? For me, LO latched worse on my right side, and I'm a righty, so I was using my left hand to help him latch, and it wasn't as effective as my right hand was on my left side, if that makes sense. I would definitely try the magnesium/calcium...how old is your LO? It might also just take time for the trauma of a poor latch to heal.
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@hilsy85: He latches poorly on my right side and I'm also a righty... but I'm doing the Cross-Cradle Hold and using my right hand to help him latch, so you'd think I'd be better at it! My LO is 6 weeks - he used to latch bad on my right side, but then got better at it, but now it's bad again! So frustrating! How much magnesium should I take? I'm already taking a calcium supplement.
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@Adira: I took 500mg of magnesium 1x a day. It helped a ton! Also, at 6 wks I was still having a lot of pain/discomfort. It got muuuch better around 9 wks. So hang in there, you're still in the early days! Is your right hand on his head or your boob when you do the cross cradle on your right side?
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I had severe vasospasms too. For me it was most likely caused by a fast letdown. My LO would be overwhelmed by the amount of milk, clamp down really hard on my nipples. That would cut off the circulation (causing the blanching) and once he unlatched the blood would come rushing back and cause some really intense pain. The LC that I saw suggested heating my breasts right after feedings so I kept some of those handwamer things on hand and would stick them in my bra right after feedings. A heating pad works too!
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@hilsy85: Thanks! I'll pick some up when I go shopping this weekend! And my right hand is on my boob when I do cross cradle on my right side.
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@Adira: I took magnesium too and it definitely helped!
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@Running Elley: Sounds like magnesium is a wonder drug! I'm excited to try it!
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@Adira: right, so for me, because I was using my left hand to guide LO's head onto my right boob, my LC suggested that my left hand wasn't really holding LO's head in the right position because it wasn't my dominant hand. She suggested that I do the football hold exclusively on the right side (in which my right hand would be guiding LO's head to my nipple). I did it for a while, and who knows if it helped, but I just thought I would mention it! I hope you're feeling better soon, vasospasms are SO painful and I considered giving up nursing because of them. You will feel amazing when you are pain free though
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@hilsy85: Oh, interesting! Maybe that's my problem too. I've tried the football hold and I just can't figure it out. I'm definitely doing it wrong and his latch is still terrible when I do it. I wish I could figure out how to do this correctly! I'll take any position as long as it's pain free!!
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@Adira: I found that it helped if I kind of sat him up in front of my right boob and used my right hand to guide the back of his head while my left hand lifted my boob into the right position for him to latch on. Or, maybe try using a pillow in front of you and having him recline on that, while you have your feet up so the pillow/baby is resting on your thighs (I don't know if this makes any sense, lol).
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@hilsy85: So is he more in front of you rather than being to your side? Everything I've read about the football hold has him to the side, but I can't figure out what to rest his butt on that his head is still at a decent height to latch. I also feel with the football hold that I can't really see how open his mouth to tell if he's opening it wide enough to latch.
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@Adira: yup he's more in front of me...I did it this way because I also had an overactive let down, so it helped the milk not shoot down his throat if he was sitting up more. I don't know how big your LO is, but can you try kind of having his body lean against your right forearm, with your hand at the back of his neck, and his butt kind of in the crook of your elbow? and maybe have a boppy behind your arm, around your waist to help support your arm?
The way I tried to make sure he had a wide latch was to use my left hand to tap his lower lip with my nip, which would make him open up. I would then rest my breast on his lower lip and kind of flip my nipple quickly into his mouth. Also, try having his mouth scoop over the nipple from below--so latching his lower lip first, rather than focusing on his upper lip.
This explains what i mean! http://www.pumpstation.com/pumpstation/dept.asp?dept_id=3228
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@Adira: Also, has he been checked for a posterior tongue tie/lip tie? Are your nips at all deformed when they come out of his mouth (like shaped like a new tube of lipstick)?
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@hilsy85: Thanks for that thorough description! I'll have to give it a try tonight when I do the middle of the night feedings and see if I have any luck. I do try to do that deep latch technique you suggest, but I have trouble seeing what I'm doing with the football hold, so I can only tell if we've succeeded or not based on how much pain I'm in!
Hmm... I wouldn't say my nipples come out looking like a new tube of lipstick. They just look squished. Like if you look at them from the front, they are more oval shaped than round, if that makes sense. Is this normal, or indicative of an issue? Even my good breast looks like that, but I don't have pain when feeding on that side.
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@Adira: hmm...don't know if that's indicative of an issue, but even after my LO's tongue tie was clipped, my nips were coming out squished looking as well--like I would have a crease at the top. My LC told me that he still wasn't putting his tongue in the right position, so the nipple wasn't getting far enough into his mouth. She gave me an exercise to try with him, and maybe it would help your LO? Basically, you just hold down the lower lip for like 5-10 seconds--when you do this, the mouth should open wide and the tongue SHOULD come out past the lower gum. My LO's tongue initially barely moved, but as he got better, his tongue gained a lot of motion, which helped him suck properly and helped my nipple get into the right position. Anyway, no idea if that's your issue at all but figured it might help.
And most of all, as much as I hated hearing this, just try to give it another few weeks...like I said, at 9 weeks I was finally able to breastfeed pain free, which I seriously thought would never happen if you had asked me at 6 wks (I was still in a lot of pain and having a really hard time at 6 wks).
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@hilsy85: Hmm... interesting! Thanks for the exercise advice! I did notice today that when I held his lower lip open, his tongue was basically glued to the top of his mouth. But I didn't hold it for 5-10 seconds, so I have no idea what would have happened if I did!
So just to clarify, when you breastfeed, when you pull your breast out of his mouth, are your nipples round and not squished at all? Maybe I do still have issues. Gahh! Stupid baby.
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@Adira: try doing it several times a day. Also, do his lips flip out naturally when he nurses? if not, you can also try running a finger between his lip and his gum several times a day to kind of "loosen" things.
When I breastfeed now, my nips are the same shape when they come out as when they go in. BUT at 6 wks, they were definitely squished looking because LO wasn't latching/sucking properly. Doing those exercises helped, as did I think just time and his mouth getting bigger. Does that make sense?
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@Adira: Nothing to add about vasospasms here, but just wanted to say how crazy challenging BF'ing can be right? If it's not one thing, it's another! But what we won't do for these little babes of ours!
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I have that. It was really bothersome until I figured out the right nursing positions to decrease it. When I can't totally prevent it, I need to leave my nipples uncovered for a minute afterwards to let them go back to normal. Play around with your positioning - that'll really help.
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@hilsy85: That makes perfect sense! It's weird - his lips seem to flip out just fine on my left side, but on my ride side, his upper lips don't seem correct. I'm guessing this is part of my problem. I'm actually going to try (for now) to just nurse him on the left and pump on the right and give him a bottle and see if that helps my nipple heal. I'm just worried about not being able to pump enough.
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@Adira: you should have the most milk in the early morning hours (like 2-4am I think?) so as painful as it is, you can always wake up to pump then? Does he eat on both sides now or just one at a time? If you can manage it (maybe your DH can help you), you can nurse on the left and pump on the right simultaneously--that will probably get the most milk, as nursing stimulates the best. I definitely think letting your right nip heal is a good idea--I wish I had done that, but I didn't and I think it just extended the time until I was pain free.
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@hilsy85: Xander usually takes both sides, so I don't think one side is enough for him. As an experiment, I fed him just on the left this morning, but he was hungry an hour and a half later, so it definitely wasn't enough. Then I gave him a bottle, but he drank more than I pumped! Ugh! Maybe it's just because after 1.5 hours, he was hungrier than he would've been if I just gave him the bottle immediately after nursing. I have no idea what I'm doing, haha. All I know if my nipples hurt, lol.
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@Adira: aww I know the feeling! In that case, it sounds like your best bet might be to pump during a long stretch of sleep for him--like if you have a 4 hour stretch, pump at the 2 hour mark maybe? I'm no expert on pumping though, so maybe asking some of the other bees would be helpful!
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@hilsy85: Are you just always on HB? You respond to all my posts so quickly!
And I really appreciate all your advice and help!
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@Adira: ha just good timing, Lo was asleep last night when I was responding and he was taking a nap this morning (but just woke up!).
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I had that, it was a combination of poor latch and using too large a flange when pumping. Fixed the latch by having DS' upper lip tie/posterior tongue tie were corrected and went down to the smallest size pump flange I could get.
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I just wanted to chime in to say that it sounds like you're going through exactly the same thing as I did! Poor latch, worse on one side, the white nipples, the pain that starts right after... I did those same exercises with my LO, also was told by my LC to stick my tongue out at him and have him mirror me. Doing those exercises regularly did help! My LO has a tiny mouth, and the main issue was that he just wouldn't open his mouth wide enough.
I had to take breaks with pumping to let my nipples heal too, and what helped me was bag balm, especially if you have any cracking or bleeding.
Eventually, as my LO got bigger, he was able to open his mouth bigger. He still doesn't have a textbook latch, but it works for us :). I hope things get better for you! Hang in there!
I've tried switching positions, but everything I try still hurts so... I don't really know! Ugh.
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