Have you ever heard about or experienced landlords discriminating against people with babies/kids? The broker we've been working with said not to mention that we are having a baby because landlords don't want to deal with liability with lead paint and stuff like that, and will 'choose another applicant' over someone with a baby. This seems pretty odd to me and I never heard of it, but wondering if anyone else has?
This is for rentals, not buying a place. I'm not really showing yet, but to be honest, I want to know if there are issues that would make it not good for a baby, wouldn't everyone?
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YES!!
I've asked about three properties (over email) and after the "how many people will be living there?" question, I never hear from them again! And these are realtor's offices, not like, an individual on craigslist or something...
One actually called me back. When I answered I mentioned that the other two dropped me like a hot potato once I said that we had a child she did the whole, "oh gosh, that's terrible, no we're not like that.." blah blah.. sent me a listing for a rental that was $1000 over what I told her our range was and I never heard from here again either. It's ridiculous! -
@rachiecakes: Huh. I guess this lady knows what she is talking about then? We are in the Boston area too.
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Yes, I certainly heard about this when we lived in Boston. Be careful b/c I also have a friend in Boston who hid her pregnancy when apartment hunting. When they were moving in the landlord realized that she was pregnant (by then they were about to have the baby) and basically threatened to figure out a way to evict them. Rather than dealing w/ that situation, then ended up having to find another place to live right before the baby was born. Yes, it is illegal to discriminate against a tenant based on their family status, but it's hard to prove in court and expensive to fight. The landlords count on this, since de-leading is so much more expensive for them.
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I have never heard of this before, that is very interesting. However, when we moved into this apartment when I was pregnant (we had lived here the year previously), we never told them I was pregnant until we picked up the keys and I was clearly showing. There are several kids in our complex though so I don't think they care much here.
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@skibobrown: Ugh. Another fun thing to worry about! I mean we are taking the lead thing into consideration already-- I won't move anywhere that I don't think would be safe for a crawling baby (even though DH insists the baby won't be licking the walls). Apartment hunting is annoying.
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Yes, I've heard of it. This is especially common in older buildings which may have some lead issues. Lead abatement can be costly, so landlords don't want to do it. Also depending on the locality there could be other requirements for small children that they may need to install at their own expense(for example, window guards). Landlords are not supposed to discriminate based on family status (that's federal law), but it can sometimes be hard to prove from what I've seen. It sucks.
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Nope never heard of that. Almost every family here has a kid so I can't imagine all of them own homes. How strange!
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@Foodnerd81: I grew up in the Boston area as did my husband. In our area, we pretty much all grew up in old houses that probably had lead paint somewhere in the layers underneath the newest lay of paint. It was just a reality of our childhood. Our parents were always wary of window sills and other places with peeling, chipping, or worn away paint... and we all turned out fine. It some areas it's just really hard to find a newer or otherwise lead-free house.
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@skibobrown: I know-- I had posted about it on here a while back, so when we are looking at places, we are looking to make sure the paint looks like it's not painted over 30 layers of paint, no chips or peeling, that kind of thing. So we aren't set on a deleaded place, we are just aware of the issue. We wouldn't move in somewhere and THEN be like, well, I'm pregnant you have to delead it now. I guess I just thought the realtor was a little a little coo-coo but I may have been wrong!
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Sigh...we are landlords in Boston. I'm a little too drunk to go into detail but there's not a whole lot you can do. Will post more tomorrow if you want me to.
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I have no idea if it's common elsewhere, but FWIW I was a very visible 6 months pregnant when we were apartment hunting, and it was never an issue (at any complex/privately owned rental).
Good luck!
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Yes. We inquired about an apartment we LOVED. The landlord said he was fine with us moving in but said that we could possibly be kicked out if our baby made too much noise and the other tenants complained. We ended up not pursuing that option any further. It was a small 8-unit plex and it was an older building so I guess you could hear the neighbors easily but still... some people just need to learn to deal!
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That's so crazy- I've never heard of that before! You poor gals that have to deal with that!
We are landlords in a 9 unit condo building, and I would never not rent to a couple with a baby/kids. I am more concerned about people with pets than I am about kids! -
This is crazy!!!
Lead paint has been banned in the US since the 70's. The only lead paint you will encounter will be beneath layers of paint which have been applied since then. It's really not dangerous under there!! We live in a 1930s house and there is clearly lead paint beneath the top layers on our woodwork. It's not dangerous unless it's being removed as far as I'm aware - the dust from sanding can be toxic, as are the fumes from heat stripping.
If the law where you are is that a landlord has to remove all lead paint if a child is going to be living in the property then I totally understand why landlords want to avoid this. It's time consuming, costly in terms of labour and rent loss while the work is being done... what a nightmare!! It's so wrong to discriminate but I understand why they do it.
What a nightmare for you, too! Hide that belly, I say!!
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@mrsmate: would love to hear more!!
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@mrsmate: I'd love to hear more too!
@Cherrybee: I don't think it's the law to change anything. I believe all landlords are required to give to paperwork disclosing that there COULD be lead paint under there if it was built before 78 but then it's on us if we want to live there. I've lived in apts with cracked or peeling paint on window sills and the Luke and it was fine, since I was an adult who doesn't eat paint chips! I just would not rent a place like that now. It hasn't been an issue for us yet anyway- we can't even find a place we like yet!
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@Foodnerd81: In which case, that's really strange. I hope you find somewhere soon - best of luck.
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@Cherrybee: We are lucky that we are really flexible in our moving time frame-- any time between March and June, really, and if we really don't find anything, we can make our current place work. I just thought the realtor was crazy for suggesting that-- goes to show how easy I have had it, probably. I could understand worrying about the noise-- if my upstairs neighbors had a baby that cried a lot it would be miserable, since we can hear their TV and conversations as it is, though.
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@Foodnerd81: I've never heard of this. we are apartment hunting now and we go to view places with our LO and so far they have been nothing but nice to us. Our current lplace knows we have a baby and they are trying to get us to get a bigger apartment within the same complex even though we want to leave
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Living in NYC and buying an apartment has taught me that if your building was built before 1950 it is almost guaranteed there is lead paint, but as long as you paint over it, it's totally safe. As far as the discrimination thing, I haven't seen anything like that here and I feel like I"m always surrounded by people with small children.
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@Cherrybee: I think that's the problem. My understanding from when we lived in Boston was that landlords were required to de-lead if tenants with children asked for it. That's why they did not want to have tenants with young children at all, b/c they could potentially be on the hook for a very expensive de-leading process and maybe even finding alternative housing for their tenants while the de-leading was taken place.
@mrsmate probably knows more... -
Wow, that sucks!
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@skibobrown: OOH-- that makes sense that landlords wouldn't want babies then! Huh.
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Wouldn't HUD be able to help?
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@mrsmate: I just have to tell you that I love your response! I'm glad you had a fun night!!! Way to go!!!
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We also live in the Boston area (Somerville) and struggled to make the decision to stay in our current place (2 BR, no W/D, not certified deleaded, but we painted over all exisiting paint ourselves and apparently a couple of decades ago all drywall was replaced which means there SHOULD be no evidence of lead paint). We looked and looked for a place within our budget that was certified deleaded and were only able to find places that we would never subject ourselves let alone our baby to (both in terms of the property itself and location). We spoke with our healthcare providers and most agree that as long as you aren't leaving a crawling baby unattended to pick at paint, it is really not as big an issue as it can be made out to be...I know other people will have other opinions. In terms of finding a place while pregnant and facing discrimination for being pregnant, that is really terrible but not unheard of. I WOULD be upfront to avoid any issues once a lease has been signed/as you get closer to your due date. My suggestion is to reach out to any friends or friends of friends who live in apartments with babies or kids and ask for their broker/realtor information. There ARE relators who want to take you on, but you may have to search for them. Wishing you the very best--I know how stressful that is on top of the whole pregnancy thing!
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@maybebaby: Thanks for the input! This one realtor has no issue taking us on but told us not to mention the pregnancy while we were out. And yeah, I agree with you on the lead thing-- I don't need it to be deleaded, I just need the paint to look fresh and no evidence of chipping or dust or anything, which all of the places we are looking at have. That's where it's tricky though-- I want a place that is family friendly, would love there to be lots of kids and moms in the neighborhood, but don't want to risk missing out on a place that doesn't want to rent to babies.
Meh-- like I said, we have lots of time, so I'm not terribly stressed about it. As it gets later that could change though! -
@Foodnerd81: Do you mind if I ask what area of Boston you're looking in? Part of why I love our area so much is just that--we see families and playgrounds everywhere, and I so look forward to having so many options for when baby comes. Also, there is a baby-friendly matinee movie in our neighborhood each Thursday afternoon--they show regular flicks but babies (including breastfeeding babies) and moms are welcome and encouraged to attend. The sound levels are lower and the lights are slightly up.
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Oh, this is really interesting! My mom used to manage some apartments and the owner of the building wouldn't let her rent to people with kids on the top floor. The other floors had kids though.
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@maybebaby: Actually, we are pretty wide open, just want to be on a T line that goes right into town (DH works near gov center, and we want his commute to be fairly quick). So, JP, Southie, Seaport... we haven't really looked in Somerville or Cambridge yet but are open to it. Do you mind saying what part of Somerville you are in? I don't know it well enough to know what are the really student/hipster areas and what are the family areas, if that makes sense.
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@Foodnerd81: We are in Davis and have been for 3 years. We absolutely love it. Yes, we are in proximity to Tufts, but most students live in Medford so I never have felt like we are in a student town. We live 5 minutes from the Red Line and are in walking (stroller!) distance of a grocery store, tons of restaurants, playgrounds, the move theater, hardware store, etc. While we have to W/D we live a block away from a laundromat. We always thought we'd buy before babies, but with me finishing grad school and not knowing where we will be long term once I find a job, it hasn't made sense. That being said, we are so looking forward to being in such a walkable community with the babe. Let me know if you want a realtor who is interested in working with families in this area-I haven't worked with her but our friends who have 2 kids have and loved her. Good luck!
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@Foodnerd81: PS-I used to work downtown at Park Street and my door to door commute was 30 min if that gives you an idea of commute for your husband.
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This is a good place for more info:
http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/gov/laws-regs/dph/regs-i-l/lead/massachusetts-lead-law-requirement.htmlI think we can all agree a young child can safely live in an apartment that has not been certified deleaded. But if the child does end up with lead poisoning, who gets blamed? The landlord. While lead paint can be covered over, paint can chip. A child can gnaw on a window sill. Bc the damages awarded can be very high, it is not worth the risk to rent to a family w kids under 6. As you can read in the above link, the tenant can't sign anything that says they r aware of the risk and absolve the landlord of responsibility if their child gets lead poisoning.
Under MA law, a landlord must not only delead a place rented to a young family, they must also pay for the cost of alternate housing while the original unit is being leaded. It gets very very very expensive. It can wipe out all the rental income from that unit for the year. If you are a small landlord this can be devastating to the bottom line.
So you can't just say we know there's lead and it's ok w us. Bc Boston has such a tight rental market, the real consequence of the law is for landlords and brokers to just not deal w families w young kids. When there are plenty of young professionals, students, older families, why would landlords take the risk, and why would brokers jeopardize their relationships w landlords?
This tight rental market means landlords technically aren't discriminating when they rent to someone other than a young family. They can pick and choose who they feel is the "best tenant".
Sorry you are going thru this. It is a good example of a law that is well-intentioned but backfires terribly.
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@mrsmate: Wow-- thanks for the thorough run down. I really appreciate it. So, what about people not disclosing pregnancy-- I mean in our case, if we rented something and don't mention it, is it an issue?
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@Foodnerd81: if you rent a place before you have children, then ask the landlord to delead your place they are legally required to do so and pay for the cost of putting you up while work is being done. I think some landlords will say sure, I was meaning to do it at some pt anyway (deleaded units can command a premium on the sale market too, not just rentals). I think other landlords will be pissed. They could jack up the rent when your lease is up. And you can see may reactions in between.
I think a lot of couples stay in their un-certified deleaded apts bc it's such a pain to move. They will negotiate w their landlords a reasonable arrangement that does not involve inspection.
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This thread is interesting to me, in Canada landlords can choose not to rent to people with kids if they want, and they can put in the lease that people must re-locate if they have children in the future.
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