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They're both horrible things to go through, but I think it's pretty sick to try to compare them or debate about what makes anything like rape or just as bad as rape. Rape is rape. Statements saying "_____ is like rape" are a sensationalist way of trying to draw more attention to your point and get more discussion around it. And I think it's a pretty disgusting way to try to accomplish that goal. The blogger's point would have been just as valid without the comparison...but it probably wouldn't have gotten as many hits. And I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'll preface this by saying I had a traumatic birth and PTSD afterward.

There is a fundamental difference, I think, between the two, and that is intent. When someone rapes someone else, there is a clear intent to harm the other person. In situations with traumatic births, there may be negligence, lack of knowledge, etc, but I dont think that doctors have the intent to harm the woman or child. Doctors, nurses and midwives don't go into work saying "hey, im going to fuck up some woman's life today". A rapist lies in wait for an opportunity to do just that. So yeah, I absolutely don't agree with equating the two.

HOWEVER, I can see how traumatic birth can give similar emotional reactions to being raped. The feelings of loss of power, of someone doing something to your body you don't want... I mean, I get where it comes from. I think it needs its own word though. I think using rape takes away from both actual rape and birth trauma.

My opinion might be a little biased because January Harshe annoys me to no end. But, (in most cases) comparing traumatic birth experiences to rape just makes me roll my eyes and shake my head. Most doctors are doing what they feel is best to keep mom and baby healthy. January loves to turn the medical birth industry into some evil beast that it isn't. I know traumatic births happen, but I signed a consent form weeks before my hospital birth. Had my doctor done something without telling me (or against what I hoped for - e.g., the word episiotomy came up as a possibility, I vocalized I didn't want one if we could avoid it, he promised he'd do everything he could to avoid it) I had technically already consented to it.

@loveisstrange: Yes, yes, yes.

I have not experienced either but I feel it's a distasteful comparison. If you have not experienced both you certainly can't say they are the same but even if you have I just feel there are too many degrees on both sides. I feel for anyone who suffers this sort of trauma.

I understand why it is compared to rape but the semantics are a little off as the doctors etc are not doing it for sexual gratification. It is however, assault and battery, under the law (in the uk anyway). It is disgusting that we live in a culture where this is socially permissible!

@Snowdrop: Very interesting re: the assault/battery piece. I'm not sure what the law is surrounding it in the US. But, what is malpractice like in the UK? In the US, OBs have a very high malpractice risk. It's unfortunate that the US has become such a litigious society that at least part of patient care is dictated by fear of being sued. I feel like a lot of docs are in between a rock and a hard place - Having to minimize risk to mom, baby (and themself!) while also trying to keep mom happy. Sometimes, meeting all 3 of those goals are not possible.

This is tough because I do think @loveisstrange: you make a really important distinction, but I also know there are cases where the intent is not really pure.

It's not rare that a provider gets impatient with a woman who is particularly difficult or whose labor is particularly slow, and takes it out on her physically. Kind of like how we all probably sometimes are rougher than usual fastening the carseat or diaper when our kid is driving us crazy... The issue is that L&D staff have women in a seriously vulnerable position, where women have put trust in them to care for and respect the most vulnerable parts of their bodies, and disregard for that can absolutely be a grave violation. A vaginal procedure done with intentional force, not out of emergency need, but out of impatience and disdain, in spite of cries to stop, may not be all that different from perhaps a date or marital rape, where the woman has put her trust in the other person and the person takes advantage of that instead of respecting how sacred and fragile that trust is. I think the lines are sometimes blurry.

ETA: I also think sexual assault in any form is sometimes more about power than lust, another thing that blurs it all.

@anandam: You make an excellent point! I am pretty sure that's what happened in my situation.

@Vegmama: Oh, how awful for your friend. Whatever we call it, let's at least get to a place where we agree it's wrong and make it stop.

@Ra: ditto.

I have not had a traumatic birth (like some people have, my triage experience was another story) and I can understand the feeling of a lack of control.

However, though I hesitate to call it rape (mainly because it was someone I knew and not like you see on SVU) therapists have told me it was so.. no, I don't think they can be the same.

I think both are traumatic, but in different ways.

@looch: January is the person who started the Birth Without Fear blog. Don't get me wrong, I think that she is trying to do good work for women and her intentions are good, but she just goes a bit too far sometimes in my opinion.

@catomd00: yep, that much I gathered. I was more wondering why she was so annoying to you. THere seems to be an agenda with the blog, that's why I always consider the source.

@looch: Gotcha. I have followed her blog as well as facebook and on instagram for some time now, and over time she has really just started to rub me the wrong way. I don't know if it's just time for me to move on from her or if she's actually changed, but she just seems more and more smug by the day, and although she will say she advocates for all types of births, it always feels like she's looking down her nose at people that don't choose to birth in a tub at home.

I have not been a victim of rape. But I did have a really awful induction experience and after the birth of my son felt kind of like I'd been violated. I panicked at the thought of having a vaginal exam at my 6w appointment, and I couldn't stand for DH to touch me for a long time after giving birth. Even now I can't bring myself to go in for an annual exam. I get this feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach.

With all that said I don't think experience was on the same level of a rape victim. And even though I experienced trauma, I wouldn't compare to being raped.

PTSD symptoms are PTSD symptoms. whether the triggering event is a birth, a rape, a war, the resulting symptoms are the same.
The only thing that is rape is rape. It's unfortunate that women who have traumatic birth experiences are invalidated or not taken seriously, but comparing it to rape isn't the answer.
I'm not sure why rape has become the ruler by which we measure the terrible things that happen to women, but its pretty screwed up. The trauma Olympics piss me off to no end. Your experience doesn't have to be the worst, or the most traumatic, or "like Rape" in order to be valid.

I don't know if that was clear, but what I'm trying to say is:
Birth trauma caused by medical complications, rude care providers, and life threatening emergencies are NOT birth rape. There is no sexual element and although a provider may have been unprofessional, there was no intent to harm.

Birth trauma caused by a medical professional who had malice against the patient and used their power to physically assault a woman in a way that was not related to her medical care and made lewd and sexualized comments during her birth... that is sexual assault. Birth rape may not be the best term, but that.... that is real, though rare, and that is what I'm not sure people understand when they hear the term birth rape and think a woman is exaggerating her experience.

@catomd00: the assault/battery thing is actually under criminal law put it applies to health professionals like it applies to everyone. Malpractice/clinical negligence exists in the uk too but would be tried as a separate thing. If a doctor or nurse performed or even threatened a procedure they would be accountable criminally, professionally and personally. The malpractice would be the professional part. We are quite aware of it all because it applies to all aspects of the care we give and consent. For example if I was attending a birth (I woulsn't as I'm a general nurse) and I said to a woman 'I need to increase this pit as otherwise we will need to give you a section' that would be assault under the tort of trespass, as I would have threatened the woman with an intervention she does not want in order to make her accept a procedure. If I then did increase the pit it would be battery as I would have performed the procedure without proper consent (the consent would have been given under threat. Also consent can be removed at any time so signing anything in advance doesn't remove your right to say no. For example I might sign something saying I give permission for any intervention to be given if the doctor thinks I need it but then decide last minute that I do not want an epesiotomy. my latest decision must then by respected and the paper I signed becomes void.
Sorry for the ramble it is a huge area!