Hellobee Boards

@Vegmama: I kind of avoided this thread because I don't want to talk through all this stuff, but I just want people to know that it's such an important distinction, and both are very real though very different.

They seem quite different but I can see the helpless intrusion to a normally private area. My dr casually mentioned she might cut off a piece of me because of the way I tore, luckily my husband and I heard her and understood what she was saying and said ummmm WTF, well something a little nicer. Then she said oh we can just leave it be too it will probably heal on its own. We're like yeah that seems like a better option but I did wonder what she would have done if we hadn't spoken up right away. It did seem like a weird violation to just casually bring up a version of female circumcision and not really even to us but a nurse in the room. But even if she had it still would be quite different than rape.

@loveisstrange: I think that 99% of the time, that is absolutely true. Like I said I also think there's a fundamental difference between situational trauma and intent to harm. That said, though I'm sure it's rare... yes, there are some medical professionals who have intentionally and callously harmed their patients in birth.

Those are the ONLY cases where I feel the comparison is possible to rape.

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I don't like to talk about it because it's not what I want to focus on about the day my daughter was born, but I feel like no one believes this actually happens. And it does.
I fully believe that most doctors and nurses and midwives have good intentions and treat their patients with respect, but there are monsters in the world, and some of them happen to be medical professionals (yes, midwives too).

Like @catmodo: I've been becoming increasingly annoyed and frustrated with January. I stopped following her on instagram because I found myself rolling me eyes and becoming offended by her posts. She claims to support all women and all birth experiences, but I don't feel like she truly does. I wanted a natural, med-free, peaceful birth. What I got was a slow-progressing, medicated labor, a vacuum-assisted delivery, and a newborn who was taken from me for 6 hours because he wasn't breathing at birth. January's posts make me feel like I failed. All this to say, she was already grating my nerves. And then I saw that post pop up on my facebook feed (I haven't unfollowed Birth Without Fear on fb because I'm hardly ever on it).

I was raped. It was not a violent, held-down-by-gunpoint rape. It was a friend of a friend who I'd spent the evening flirting with. I had a lot of mixed emotions and confused feelings about what happened to me, especially after the first counselor I saw asked me what I was wearing that night (yeah...that happened). I had a really hard time calling it rape. But that's what it was. As a result, I had panic attacks, was diagnosed with PTSD, and I truly believe that the experience changed me to my core.

I do not doubt that experiences in which a medical professional purposefully and vindictively performs procedures on a woman are traumatizing. In both cases, it is a violation - of trust, of your body, of your safety. But it is NOT rape, and to see that headline in my facebook feed made me sick to my stomach. I completely lost any respect I had for January, and I hope enough people out there call her out and she apologizes for the calloused comparison.

ETA: Just to clarify, I am in no way saying my birth experience was traumatic. I consented to all of the things I mentioned. I was just trying to make a case for why January and Birth Without Fear had been upsetting me lately.

@Applesandbananas: Thanks. I did report him, recently, after my therapist strongly encouraged it.

@Ra: @sorrycharlie: @littlebug: big fat internet hugs to you gals.

I can't say I had a traumatic birth experience, although admittedly it was pretty horrific and terrifying for me but in the scheme of what happens to others mine was a walk in the park. As far as comparing it to rape, it kind of makes me want to punch this lady in the face. I had the misfortune of losing my virginity to my rapist and experiencing more sadistic things than a 13 year old should be aware even exist. It took me a long, long time to get to a point where I could talk about it and it's because of shit like this. Traumatic birth, rape, having a family member die, serving in a combat zone, etc.. all of those things are traumatic in their own rights but it's disgusting to compare any of them other than to say "all of those things are traumatic in different ways". Period. Talk about apples and oranges.

@MrsTiz: I too lost my virginity via rape.

It took me years – well, close to a decade – to be able to say “rape” out loud, and I’m still uncomfortable with saying it - it makes it "real" and brings emotions to the surface, 16 years later. Very few people know about it and I’m not comfortable talking about it. It definitely changed me and there were emotional and personal repercussions for years after. I only sought counseling years later, at which time I was diagnosed with PTSD related to that incident and one other.

While I’m sure that sexual assault and rape happens in a medical setting (and everywhere else), I absolutely don’t think it’s as widespread as she is making it out to be and I think it’s dangerous to start talking about the high rates of PPD being related to all of this supposed “birth rape”. I had an empowered and nontraumatic birth experience and had severe PPD. My PPD had *nothing* to do with my previous sexual assault either. When we continue to feel the need to find excuses for PPD instead of trying to treat it head-on as something that impacts many, many women regardless of other factors, we do a huge disservice to mothers and women everywhere.

@yoursilverlining: I had a pretty smooth birth, all things considered, and I still suffered from PPD, too. The two are do not have to go together.

I'm so sorry to all of you ladies who have suffered either of these traumas.

It breaks my heart that any woman goes through a bad birth experience. Mine was so respectful and reassuring, even in a hospital setting, and it is what every woman deserves.

The comparison of birth trauma to rape leaves me unsettled. I prepare victims for court in my job. I've had to hand lead rape victims to the stand after holding them while they have a panic attack about testifying. It's terrible. And it's awful to ask them to have to go face their attacker and their fears. And bare their worst experience in front of strangers. And most (definitely not all) sexual assaults are by someone you know, so that adds a whole other layer of stress and trauma, and forever alters relationships. Birth trauma simply isn't the same.

@MrsTiz: I agree with your view on it. Each thing, be it rape, traumatic birth, loss of a loved one, are all terrible but are all definitely not the same. Well said.

It seems like birth assault would be a better term. Or "assault during birth" to make it clear it isn't a normal part of the birth experience.

Agree there is really no reason to compare traumas. One being "worse" doesn't make the suffering of another any less. We should recognize that assault during birth or procedures that are not consented to are a problem in and of there own.