Check out this link I think it is a great article on work/home life balance/unbalance.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-can-t-have-it-all/9020/
Do you think she is accurate? What are your experiences?
Check out this link I think it is a great article on work/home life balance/unbalance.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-can-t-have-it-all/9020/
Do you think she is accurate? What are your experiences?
grapefruit / 4110 posts
I was unfortunately discriminated against when I wanted to get pregnant. My boss worked 24 hours a day (literally was found spending the night). So he didn't get it. It made my life pretty miserable but allowed me to find the job I have now. It is a wonderful new position with a lot more ability to be more flexible.
I think much of what was said is correct. Here analogy of how supervisors think marathon runners are committed but parents aren't even if they do the same thing was profound. And backing it all up with statistics at the end will make it easier to work towards.
My favorite thing of all was this "Lisa Jackson’s words, “to be a strong woman, you don’t have to give up on the things that define you as a woman.” "
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
Great article! I think a lot of this applies to anyone who wants to be a good parent. I couldn't be the dad I want to be if I didn't have control over my schedule.
hostess / wonderful honeydew / 32460 posts
This is a great article! I think it really depends on the type of person you are, the type of parent you want to be and how involved you want to be.
grapefruit / 4120 posts
It all depends on what "it all" is...
If we're talking about a high-powered career and adequate family time, in my opinion NO ONE can have it all -- women or men. There are only 24 hours in a day and you can't spend 14 of them working, 8 of them sleeping and still find enough to be like a full-time parent to your child. I do think "having it all" is leftover wishful thinking.
Even if we had amazing family leave policies, for example, there will always be someone without a family or with different priorities who is willing to put in more hours and naturally that person will advance. I accept this as a fact of life. Can I be a successful career person AND mom? Yes, for sure. But will I be a CEO or something like that and still have time to spend several hours a day with my kids? Highly doubtful.
grapefruit / 4110 posts
@sloaneandpuffy: Should you not be offered positions or the chance to advance because you are a parent? Because you are a women? Because you may not have those same goals?
Just for random questions not as an attack or anything.
grapefruit / 4120 posts
@brownie: No, definitely not. That's exactly what I'm saying. Regardless of your family situation, if you're willing to put in the hours (because of different priorities, or maybe you don't have kids or whatever), you will advance more quickly than someone who works their assigned hours and then goes home and doesn't spend the afternoon checking work e-mail.
(By the way, I think her reasoning about flexible hours/work from home is pretty bogus. If you're at home and working, you're not really spending time with your family!)
If it's not your goal or priority to advance, and pay that price in terms of time/energy spent, then I don't think you'd receive or desire a lot of advancement opportunities!
grapefruit / 4110 posts
@sloaneandpuffy: I agree with the flexible hours/work from home kind of. I have a co-worker who "works from home" when that means taking her to classes and talking on the phone the whole time. So, she isn't really fully anywhere (with her kid or with work).
BUT having the ability to work unconventional hours like after the kids are in bed from home would allow more time to be with them. Also, many people have a commute that they could eliminate which would give them the time. It would also be an opportunity to get some work out of people when they couldn't come in. For example, if you were able to work at home on a day that you couldn't make it to the office for a medical test or a kids appointment when they aren't home.
Or in my case we were doing IVF and I had a 10 min appointment every day. But after that I had nothing to do and my work wouldn't allow a work at home option.
Then again as devil's advocate. Should we have to take work home with us? Why isn't it available for everyone to leave work at work? If everyone is required to work 50+ hours a week shouldn't we hire more people?
Granted I love checking my e-mail work e-mail. But I am weird like that and really like my job.
honeydew / 7504 posts
@Brownie: No, I don't think we should have to take work home. I think this whole idea that you should be "available" 24 hours a day is just not ok. My mom advance to a pretty high position in her company long before smartphones and email and all that other stuff. She was almost always home for dinner and never missed a recital, play, whatever. I think it's possible to be successful and still be a good, active, present parent without having to be accessible 24 hours a day. I notice now that she has a smartphone for work, she isn't always totally present. And my step-dad is OFTEN totally distracted from us. We were on a family vacation in the Caribbean once and he would not get off his blackberry until I threatened to throw it off the boat and make him snorkel for it.
They keep talking here about giving the social workers smartphones and we are vehemently against it. We need to be able to turn off our phones at the end of the day, otherwise you'll have high rates of burnout and turnover. I think that stands true for most people, not just social workers.
grapefruit / 4120 posts
@brownie: I think it's just all about priorities.
Speaking personally, I agree with the devil's advocate. I don't think it's healthy for people (or for their families) to be on the job 24-7. In today's world, for me, that means I will probably get to a certain professional level and not much higher. But that's OK. Why would I want to be a CEO with all that implies? The money? The power?
For me, the most important things are to have fulfilling work (whatever it is), make a living and maintain balance. That's having it all, in my personal definition, but I don't think it's the writer's definition. I recognize other people have other priorities so I'll leave it to them to run corporations
apricot / 348 posts
I think it really depends on what each person's version of "having it all" is. If someone really values financial success, for example, they're going to be spending a lot more time working than at home. If someone values being home with their kids more than putting in extra hours, they're going to have a harder time moving up the ladder. For me, I try not to judge another person's choice. Even though my career has been affected before by people assuming that I will want to slow down/quit after having a baby due to other women making that choice, they are still entitled to the choice that best represents their values/needs for this point in their lives.
I think that my smartphone has actually made me able to work better and more efficiently, and I think it gives me MUCH greater independence from the office than otherwise. In the past though, I've had to slowly "train" my boss that just because she was calling at 10:00 at night, didn't mean I was going to answer.
I think it's hard because I do want to have a successful career and raise well-adjusted kids - but there is always the chance that my plans will need to change because of a child with a disability, a child who needs lots of help with school, a child with behavioral issues, etc. Who knows. Life is hard to plan for.
One other thing that I hear lots of successful women talk about is how they'll leave the office early to get their kids from school, but then they work from home after the kids are in bed. And I have to wonder how that affects their marriage. Because I really do want it all! The jobs, the kids, and the husband.
I don't know what all of the answers are, but I do think that making school schedules more reflective of work schedules is a badly-needed start. Especially since research shows that kids forget a lot of what they learned over the summer. Seems like that would be one reform that would solve a lot of problems.
apricot / 348 posts
@sloaneandpuffy: I think it took me multiple paragraphs to agree with what you so succinctly said!
grapefruit / 4120 posts
@beka: haha thanks. I didn't feel like I was expressing myself very well... it's such a complex topic. So I'm glad at least one person found me comprehensible
admin / watermelon / 14210 posts
excellent article. thanks so much for sharing!
i know i'm very lucky in that i'm my own boss so my work hours are flexible to accommodate family life. but even with that flexibility, i push myself (and want to) work so much more. work fulfills me and i can't imagine not working.
that said, if the choice came down to work or family like in the article with her teenager, family would win every time.
pear / 1837 posts
@sloaneandpuffy: I totally agree. I like my career field, but I have come to terms with the fact that there are certain roles I will never have because I am not willing to put in the time and/or travel and/or other intangibles that would be required (either now or in the future) to make me equally competitive for the position, and I'm ok with that.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
I left a financial services career to be with my son. I may never be able to get back into it because when I'm all said and done, I may have been out too long. I knew that when I made the decision to stay at home, because for me, I had no desire to have it all. I saw women become mothers and then spend the weekends in the office. They'd talk about how their kid's nanny would tell them all the cute things they did during the day. I thought I would be one of those moms, until I moved abroad and saw how differently things are done.
I hate the 24/7 accessibility...I've had people call me while I was on vacation. Once, I was fast asleep in France when I got an urgent call. Ummm, no. That was the beginning of the lonnnngggg end.
grapefruit / 4110 posts
I am again going to play devils advocate but I have been thinking alot about this.
1. Why are we ineligable for jobs that are higher? Should those jobs require the longer hours? Or is that just the man telling us those are the people that deserve it? Why do we have to want those jobs at 30 why can't we show later that we want them and still be eligible? I think that was one of the things she showed. Why are men allowed to have families etc but women aren't at the same level (i.e. the example of the supreme court)? Understanding that sometimes, there are times that things come up and we say we can't do them now knowing they won't come back up.
2) Are women self selecting themselves out of these positions. They don't even strive to achieve the higher positions because they know that they will interfere? For example in Computer Programming we don't have a lot of women because there are companies that demand 24/7 work.
3) I agree that the story was about high paying high level jobs. But I think we see this at all levels of employment. We aren't able to work and have kids very easily. We may be happy not doing the job that requires travel etc. but why aren't we getting other jobs that wouldn't require the travel. So having it all isn't always about these high level jobs.
I know I had problems at my low level job with these issues. I know another mom who can't go to another job because no matter how horrible they are to her at this one, she gets the flex time and work at home options she wants.
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
@brownie: The New York Times has a followup:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/elite-women-put-a-new-spin-on-work-life-debate.html
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