The article link is about Zimbabwe's desire to extradite Walter Palmer for killing Cecil. Do you think once the US knows where he is we should send him to Zimbabwe?
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Sure, extradite him, he's a bad dude. But then let's all calm the F down. It's sad a lion was killed, but there are much larger travesties going on in the world (many right there in Zimbabwe). I read an article last night discussing how the people of Zimbabwe can not understand that Americans seem to have no concern that the PEOPLE of Zimbabwe have trouble accessing basic needs like water, electricity, and employment, but we are up in arms over the death of a lion.
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@truth bombs: I agree 100%!
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@Truth Bombs: this
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@Truth Bombs: Right?! Exactly what I've been thinking. Animal cruelty is disgusting. I'm very saddened by what happened to Cecil. But FFS, we can raise hundreds of thousands in a matter of days over a lion while the unemployment rate in Zimbabwe is sky-high and humans lack clean water and sanitation? There's something wrong with that.
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@Truth Bombs: YES. THIS. It's horrible what that guy did and I don't believe for a second that he didn't know what was going on. But really, there are bigger and more serious problems out there.
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He should be extradited. He broke a big law. A lot of environmental protection work goes to help local communities in comparison to guys like this who go in to extract local resources for their sole pride or profit.
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I am still unclear on what really happened...did the guides that he was with know it was Cecil? Was the GPS tracking device working properly?
I don't know what extraditing him actually solves (does the potential punishment fit the crime?). It seems to me that this kind of hunting is key to the local economy (as distasteful as I might find it) and a bigger impact would be made if the government officials of Zimbabwe banned hunting expeditions of any sort. Or maybe they should look at the incident and put tighter controls in place to prevent this from happening again.
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@looch: here's an article on tourism v hunting profits for communities. http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/07/29/427451836/one-point-of-view-on-how-lions-can-earn-money-for-africa
http://africageographic.com/blog/more-info-about-the-hunt-of-cecil-the-lion/It's thought that they lured him out of the protected park with meat onto private land.
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@Truth Bombs: yes exactly. Mind boggling how many people are up in arms about this, but there is such limited response to the million other atrocities that are committed in Zimbabwe, Africa as a whole, or even the US.
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@Truth Bombs: @hilsy85: yep!
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What amazes me is how many lives have been impacted by this incident. Cecil's cubs are now in danger from the other male lions. The dentist's staff are now without jobs. The dentist's patients now have to scramble to find new providers.
I didn't sign the White House petition, but I am very disgusted by what happened. It's one thing to kill animals for sport (not a fan); it's another to kill animals that are specifically protected and break laws. This entire thing reminded me of the movie Purge. This isn't the first time the dentist participated in an unlawful trophy kill.
@Maysprout: I read a similar article that cited the same figures. Simply, animals left alive are much better for Africa's economy.
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I don't agree with trophy hunting under any circumstance. Its disgusting and horrible. But I don't know how I feel about extraditing this man. Does anyone know what his punishment would be in Zimbabwe?
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@Truth Bombs: people cry at animal deaths in movies more too. That's kinda the point of why it's a big deal. Rare animals are big tourism and bring people in, they elicit a passion in some people, and can then bring more awareness to a location, situation and culture. You can say 'thats stupid' but it is reality and thus supporting a healthy environment is supporting the community.
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Just have to leave this here because it's perfect:
Actually here is a c/p because it's not that long:
Look, I know it seems pretty wide open right now, but this lion-killing dentist thing is sailing along just as it’s supposed to:
The killer of the lion was revealed. The social media accounts of the Minnesota dentist who killed the lion in Africa have been mined for information. His Yelp listing has been defamed, his Facebook page has been deleted, his website has been attacked. Some terrible things he did in the past have surfaced. Many clever tweets have been fired off. Basically everyone has agreed that this was a terrible thing to do.
Now the fun stuff starts. The backlash to the backlash begins. Benghazi will be invoked. A right-wing radio host with an active following will start a GoFundMe page; it will raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hours. Everyone will act surprised. Barack Obama’s birth certificate will be invoked. The Minnesota dentist will issue a formal apology through a lawyer. The Nuremberg trials will be invoked. Furious tweets will be fired off. The second amendment will be invoked, even though Zimbabwe doesn’t have a second amendment. Someone will ask Donald Trump for comment. Someone will ask Mitt Romney for comment. Someone will ask Dog the Bounty Hunter for comment. CNN will screw up a segment about the story, perhaps by mislabeling Zimbabwe on a map of Africa, or by mislabeling Minnesota on a map of America, or by mislabeling a lion as a baby hippopotamus.
It will be revealed that the Minnesota dentist who killed the lion is a supporter of a certain presidential candidate. This will prove embarrassing for the candidate, who will attempt to distance himself from the Minnesota dentist who killed the lion. Justine Sacco will be invoked. Neil Degrasse-Tyson will tweet something smart.
A brand will tweet something oblivious and atrocious. “You don’t have to be the Minnesota dentist who killed a lion to enjoy our sale on Crocs!” The tweet will be deleted. The brand will apologize. The intern will be fired. The brand will go back to tweeting to the void, to the vast nothingness it abuts.
Someone will suggest that we went too hard on the Minnesota dentist who killed the lion. The GoFundMe page will cross $1 million. Someone will set up a counter-fundraiser, for the lions. It will raise far less money. Someone will point out that there are far greater issues in Africa that we should be paying attention to. This person will be ignored. The Minnesota dentist who killed the lion will get a sympathetic interview with Sean Hannity. His wife will sit next to him, dabbing her eyes with a Kleenex. The “liberal media” will be invoked. Twitter will be blamed. The Internet will be blamed. George Soros will be blamed. Ernest Hemingway will be invoked. A Republican presidential candidate who is lagging in the polls and struggling to gain media attention will tweet a photo of himself with an animal he has just killed. The candidate will gain media attention and surge up the polls. The GoFundMe page will cross $2 million in funds raised. Someone will point out what this money could have been put toward, instead of a Minnesota dentist who killed a lion.
Sarah Palin will be invoked.
The story will begin to lose steam. CNN will apologize for labeling Thailand as Zimbabwe. Donald Trump will say something outrageous about Iran. Mike Huckabee will say something outrageous about the Civil War. Joe Scarborough will say something outrageous about pastry strudels. The Minnesota dentist who killed the lion will appear on The Hugh Hewitt Show. The Minnesota dentist who killed the lion will appear on The 700 Club. The Minnesota dentist who killed the lion will appear on the upcoming season of Blue Bloods.
But eventually, ultimately, the Minnesota dentist will go back to practicing dentistry. He will be able to purchase all new dental tools, with the $3 million he raises from GoFundMe. An intern at a large media organization will be assigned a nostalgic listicle, about newsmakers from the past year you may have forgotten.
The intern will invoke the Minnesota dentist who killed a lion. You will definitely have forgotten.
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@JoJoGirl: Haha that is fantastic and also perfect!!
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@JoJoGirl: I disagree. People become more educated and aware and small changes begin. The amount of education about the environment is so much more than in Bush years. It's staggering to look back on the ridiculous things he argued, I've watched it in friends and family too - even ones that are still conservative are so much more educated on the environment and conservation than they were 10 years ago. And I do think that education leads to change.
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@Maysprout: I think the article was meant to be satirical and not literal. I found it amusing.
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@Maysprout: Wait, what? It was more a statement on the arc of our culture as it relates to social media than anything else..
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@JoJoGirl: I read it as the end result is nothing changes, no one really cares in the long run and thus the reporting and subsequent discussion are pointless.
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@Maysprout: No. The point was that we are all very predictable when it comes to social media witch hunts like this (See: Justine Sacco)
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I just don't understand why people are getting upset about this, but not the horrible treatment and killing of so many other animals in the world and in our own towns....? It just seems so random. I don't understand the difference between Cecil the lion and Tammy the cow someone ate for lunch. What makes some animals more special than others? Obviously, I'm a vegetarian, if that bias isn't already showing
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@JoJoGirl: right, and the prediction they were making is that after a brief freak out that nothing changes and no one cares in the long run.
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@DesertDreams88: One big difference (to me) is that the cow's life went to sustain others! But the lion's life was sacrificed just to sustain the ego of one person...
Also, the lion lived on a protected reserve, and was lured off. So the hunter violated the rules in his hunt... whereas there are no rules protecting cows (except in India).
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@DesertDreams88: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Just kidding. I actually agree with you.ETA: Though @MrBee has a really good point!
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@Mr. Bee: Very true about your first point... if animals have to be killed, I'd rather their whole bodies be used for good, rather than just discarded. But as for your second point, rules protecting some animals and not others, seem a bit arbitrary to me....
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@DesertDreams88: a couple reasons. The economy of lion tourism that was taken away, lions are more rare than cows, and it was an American who did it I mentioned in the other thread I killed a lot of mice for cancer research. I was a vegetarian while doing that. I didn't think animals needed to die for me to be fed but I do think careful animal research is OK to alleviate human suffering. This guy killed an animal and let him suffer for a long time for his head. Not for cancer research, not for money to feed his family and not for food. theres tons of horrible examples out there of animal suffering but stories are great to raise awareness and help people really understand the bigger picture.
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@DesertDreams88: It doesn't feel arbitrary to me, in the context of conservation and eco tourism?
But yah, all life isn't valued equally, or treated equally - and that's far from fair, definitely agree!
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@maysprout: I guess I don't think the economic value of one species over another species should allow killing one and preserving another. Economic value is not inherent value.
I also don't think rareness should matter, either. Is it ok to kill animals as long as there's just some left of every species? Who determines rarity and how is that not subjective? I know there are 8 different conservation statuses but in the end, it's just a guessing game in the dark as to how many animals within a species constitutes these categorizations.
I agree with your points about suffering and waste, but there's a heck of a lot of suffering and waste within the mass meat production industry and not many people care about that it seems...
I realize I sound quite idealistic and ideals can't always play out in reality. After all, I do slap mosquitos that bite me and squash crickets that come in my house.
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@Maysprout: ...which yes generally tends to be the case. If it's not and we all as a society become much more conscientious about conservation, awesome. I don't think it's so out of left field to assume that won't happen.
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I read an article (and I will find it if the internet beckons) about Zimbabwe wanting him to come back there so he can give free dentistry to the people there who desperately need dental care. I thought that was a brilliant way to turn this into a positive. He needs to give back and these people are in need.
I also think internet witch hunts are pretty disgusting and think everyone needs to calm the fuck down and leave the dude alone. His practice is already ruined, his online presence is certainly ruined, I'm sure his relationships have taken a toll, ergo his life is pretty well ruined. Let's let him pick up the pieces now and stop picketing in front of his practice.
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@.twist.: seriously. I was pretty turned off when I saw a FB friend linking to his yelp to "let him know what you think of his actions." I would not personally big game hunting, but I also wouldn't say that a community that feels like it is a beneficial piece of their economy shouldn't allow it. Also I think the legal system can deal with it and people don't need to persecute him anyway. Wasn't there a book on this? "So you've been publicly shamed?" Or something.
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@jedeve: Jon Ronson! Bought it for an upcoming trip, excited to read it...
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@Maysprout: Those are two interesting articles, thanks for sharing them.
I think in order for any meaningful change to happen, some kind of other revenue stream has to be created to replace trophy hunting. What that is, I don't know.
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@mrbee: I actually just read an article he did on being publicly shamed? Maybe related to his book or something? Not sure, but it was VERY eye opening and terrifying. Made me feel really badly for people who have made a stupid joke or something and had their whole lives torn apart because of the internet.
@jedeve: Yea. I think everyone can agree it's disgusting, the internet should move on!
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