wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Pink Champagne: First, I'm not arguing anything. I have always thought of it as personal preference- grounded in custom (religious or otherwise).
Both my brother and my father are uncut. DH (cut as a baby) and his father (cut as an adult) are cut. None of these four guys experienced teasing for being cut or uncut. Locker room teasing is not a good enough reason to have this kind of surgery.
grapefruit / 4819 posts
@Pink Champagne: I should have clarified - I was referring to the vast majority of circumcisions that are done in the US for non-cultural/religious reasons. Also, I think the argument of kids being teased is a rather silly one. I ran that by DH (who is British and grew up in Australia where circ is not done at all) and he laughed. He said if a guy made fun of another guy's penis, HE would be the one getting made fun of for checking out another guy's stuff in the showers. Also, if we go along those lines, isn't it a slippery slope? Do we perform nose jobs on children with large noses so they don't get teased? Do we give our late developing 15 yr old a boob job so she isn't teased for being flat chested? Shouldn't we be teaching our children to accept and love themselves, and others, regardless of how they look? Also, performing the surgery so your child doesn't get teased would most definitely qualify as a social surgery (I know you said you're Jewish and did it for religious reasons, but you also made the point you wouldn't want your son teased etc, suggesting it's ok to have it done for that reason).
grapefruit / 4800 posts
@Claire.Peonies: The Africa circumcision study had a couple problems. It was cut short and men receiving circumcision not only had to abstain from sex for 6 weeks they received more counseling and condoms than the uncircumcised group, both of which should have had a significant impact on results.
Studies in Western countries don't find a decrease in transmission of HIV from circumcised men. There may actually be an increase of transmission between gay circumcised men and from circumcised men to women.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/09/us-circumcision-gay-idUSTRE6283Z820100309 Foreskin acts as a kind of natural lube so makes sense that less abrasive sex could lead to less disease.
pear / 1699 posts
We chose not to circ for many reasons and find the STD/HIV reason laughable. If my uncut son is having unprotected sex and gets an STD it won't be because of a decision I made before he was born. I also believe the stats are skewed. I saw this video and many more when I was researching and think both sides of this debate can come off as radical. I live in Canada and DH is cut but it's not the norm here anymore.
apricot / 402 posts
@Maysprout: that is interesting. thank you for sharing. however, there have been multiple studies over the last several years (some more recently) within the US that support a major reduction of both HPV and HIV, in addition to STIs.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@Maysprout: I was coming in to share the data that you just shared. Thank you.
@Claire.Peonies: I am looking for good, recent US based articles and am coming up short. Most of the studies are conducted in Uganda. I'd love to see your sources.
I no longer do circs. I have seen a few hospitalizations due to infection, but really I just don't see it as necessary. Those who want to do it culturally have a mohel, those who need it, I refer to Espion and her colleagues, and the rest I refer to another provider if they really want it.
AAP guidelines say that the benefits outweigh the risks "for families who choose it". I don't see that as the strongest policy statement ever.
pomelo / 5093 posts
I would not choose to perform elective, cosmetic surgery on my child when she's too young to consent, especially on a part of the body related to sexual functioning. My husband is not circumcised and never experienced any teasing or negative reactions from women. If I had a son, I would absolutely support his right to choose to have it done as an adult.
pomegranate / 3003 posts
@Ree723: Love your last response; I so agree with your sentiments.
Should we have sons in the future, we will not circumcise. We see no reason, as we don't feel any religious, cultural, or medical obligation to do so. I do, however, support a parent's right to choose what is best for their boys, and their families, without judgement.
We will teach our sons proper, genital hygiene, starting from a young age. My husband is not circumcised, and has been playing competitive sports his entire life. He never experienced any locker room teasing, and has always had excellent....penile health? Ha.
Speaking to the STD argument, consistent, adequate protection should be a priority, no matter what. Thankfully, our children will likely be the first generation to have the Gardasil vaccine encouraged and enthusiastically offered by their doctors before they are sexually active.
honeydew / 7589 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: Thank you for weighing in. Seeing physicians supporting opposite sides of the discussion is actually quite helpful, since you guys tend to cite studies that I personally really appreciate.
My own research leads me to agree with your comments regarding the currently available studies on circ. and STD's - they are weak at best, inaccurate and misleading at worst.
As much as the research means to me (and it does mean a lot!), for me it comes down to bodily integrity.
I cannot in good concience change my child's body (irreparably) without his consent. That decision lies in his hands alone, when he is old enough to make it for himself.
@Arden: I try to be very neutral in my counseling to families and I don't get to have strong feelings of my own on the issue at this point, since I have only girls
If we had a boy, I was going to leave the decision to Mr. Jacks, even though he would try to push me to make the decision. I'd provide him with the data and let him sort it out!
cantaloupe / 6910 posts
@Navy_Mommy: yes. My husband was in incredible amounts of pain and has scarring that make him self conscious too. It doesn't bother me either way but I don't want our kids to possibly have to go through the same thing!
honeydew / 7295 posts
I can't even watch this! I was in the room during my sons circ and I am forever traumatized by the experience. I absolutely regret it and I wish I had known more when I agreed to go though with it. Do I think my son will ever remember or care? Doubtful. Do I think it's bad or wrong to make the choice for yourself? No. I think there are some advantages to it that make sense for some. My son looks great but he was perfect the way he was born. I let my husband decide because he was the one with the penis and that day haunts me. It hurts my heart and I still wish I could undo it. I am so nervous that it will be an awful battle with my husband if we have another boy and he wants them to look the same. It makes me sick just thinking about it.
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