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@Cherrybee: your comment about quit your job, never leave the house, never open the blackout blinds, preserve naps at all costs? Oh wait that was the first six months of C's life! Except when we left to stomp into Home Depot and demand the cheap paper blackout blinds stat! I must have looked like a crazy person.

So, my non expert opinion would be to tackle one issue at a time. For me I wouldn't cut it the motn milk and cuddles until she was falling asleep a little easier. She's already overtired, so I think doing whatever you have to do to get her the most overnight sleep you can makes sense for now.

I would also think about cutting out the bedtime TV in case the light is stimulating her more. Of course she will battle you, no question.

And I think that maybe moving will be a good opportunity to establish a new routine. a fresh start for everyone.

Lots of hugs from me. I go crazy when C won't sleep, and you have been dealing with this for so long. No wonder you are so exhausted!!

@Cherrybee: Sooo... you won't like this suggestion... but any chance you can get up earlier to get ready? It'll be rough with how your nights are currently, but might work out well for the future? I'm currently getting up at 4:30 so I can get myself ready to go before the kids wake up.

@Cherrybee: haha, yeah, that's why I asked. It's different for me because we're using a daycare and they open at 6:30, so we can drop them off a lot earlier and I don't feel guilty!

Fingers crossed tonight goes better than last night.

@Cherrybee: hugs mama. I'm so sorry you are going through this. And you are right about how the English don't buy into therapy etc, but I do think a sleep consultant could be a good way forward for you right now. We have considered it more than once too (despite also being English and not into stuff like that )Like someone else said, your DH can't punch doors and say no sleep consultant, you guys need your sanity back too.

Sorry for all the posts but another idea I had is to print a schedule with pictures and hang it up and talk about it it could say 1 show then bed fklkiws

@Cherrybee: You can't expect her to make a complete and total change in one night, but I understand how discouraging the whole situation is...it's like the only thing you want to do is sleep and it's the last thing they want to do! If they only knew had good they had it.

@Cherrybee: Perhaps you should make to leave at the first sign of singing, even whispering the words. Then she may get the hint that she must be absolutely silent (if that's what you want). FWIW, H usually talks/sings herself to sleep. As long as she's not crying/screaming, I usually leave her to sort it out herself.

@Cherrybee: oh it's over the counter here Amazon?

Sweet, gentle Jesus, you deserve a medal!

I wrote something earlier and it got eaten, so here's a few thoughts:

- When I used to nanny, the kids of the two families I worked for hardly saw their dad because of work hours. So when they saw him it was on like Donkey Kong and they got SO excited and riled up. It was to the point where any time the Dad was going to solo parent, I was actually asked to stay with him to keep routines down and try to help keep the peace. It seems like your daughter is easily stimulated and she gets super excited about seeing you guys at night so its hard to settle. So I agree with all of the comments about limiting screen time and anything that may stimulate your child before bed. I think even for adults, the recommendation is to not play with phones or screens 90 minutes before bedtime to get the most restful sleep.

- Some children get really invigorated by baths while others find them soothing. If your daughter LOVES baths, it might be getting her stimulated. Can your inlaws bathe her during the day and then washcloth her at night before bed? It would also cut the bedtime process down. You might be able to replace it with something soothing like a lotion massage in a dim room while you speak gently and quietly to her.

- You might want to try reinforcing your presence as opposed to your absence. For instance, you say you will sit/lay with her only if she lays down and closes her eyes. When she obeys, you can give her lots of positive comments and say things like "you are such a good girl for laying down, should we have a special sing a long as a reward?" Then you can sing to her or tell her a story in the dark in a low voice and try to settle her. If she starts flipping out and running around, then you warn her of the terms of you sticking around. If she misbehaves, you say "I'm sorry, but if you don't lay down and close your eyes, mommy has to go." Then you can come back in 10 minutes and ask if she's ready to lay down quietly and close her eyes again. Either she will drift off or after a while you can say "okay, its time for everyone to go to sleep."

- This is related to the other thing, but sometimes littles get the fear of missing out, so one thing that can help is just shut the whole house down and make it like its bedtime for everyone. Lights off, everyone's in bed, and then just say "its time for everyone to go night night." Then its not a matter of Peppa Pig or whatever. Everything is dark and buttoned up and perhaps that help convey the message. Once she's asleep you can creep around and do chores or whatever. Or just snooze yourself! Hopefully over time, once she learns to go to sleep quicker you can move around the house a bit more.

Such huge hugs and good luck!!

I have no idea if you've looked at this before or if this would be helpful at all, but this website had some interesting tips:

http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-training.html

The first one, about faded bedtime, might help. It talks about starting your bedtime routine really late, at like 9:00 since that's when your LO usually falls asleep. Then once that's working, you move up bedtime by 15 minutes every few days until you're at the bedtime you desire.

Does she have any sort of noise in her room to help distract her?

@Cherrybee: I know.

But yes, for this method I would stay there until she falls asleep. Just my thoughts and what worked for us because the same thing happened when we did CIO. Eventually it taught her how to lay down and relax herself.

Then there is a method called the Sleep Lady shuffle where you stay in the room but move further and further towards the door for bedtime to get them to learn to fall asleep on their own.

@Cherrybee: According to the link I posted earlier, you WOULD stay until she falls asleep. But then you slowly pay less and less attention to her and move away from her until you're eventually out of the room. It takes time though but the start is laying with her until she falls asleep.

@Cherrybee: Yes!

@Cherrybee: You might just fall asleep with her, I know it's not a long term desired effect. My DH used to do this often with our LO. He'd lay down with her to "cuddle" (she doesn't like to actually be touched though) and he'd be out before her. He wasn't comfortable though, so he'd wake up (usually shortly after she's asleep) and leave. But it would get him a little 20 minute power nap

What a big mess! Sorry you are dealing with all that.

Not to pile on more but I also suspect she's screaming for the milk and the cuddles. If those stop (even if you go in and say something boring and repetitive, for us I say "it's time to rest" and then leave) then I think in a week or so she'll cut it out. Sure, that week will be awful, and she'll be up all night looking for milk, but then you will have your nights back and it will be glorious! I'm of the opinion that to fix this awful situation you need to accept some unpleasant temporary changes.

All that said, I'm just an American on the internet so what do I know

@Mrs. Tiger: I agree. I think you have to be super boring and not give her what she wants. Pick one phrase ("Night night time, lay down and go to sleep" is ours) and say that and ONLY that no matter what even if she sets herself on fire. I think it is going to suck really bad for y'all no matter what but I think you have to do it and stick to it. So far, everything is telling her that if she persists, she'll get what she wants. As hard as it is, you have to communicate a new message to her.

When it gets tough, tell yourself it is for her own good. She will be happier and healthier when she starts to sleep better and longer. She'll survive a few really bad nights, I promise.