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One other thing--we have taught both DDs early and often about their own skin and ethnic background because from a very young age, they have been exposed to those "curious, well meaning questions" that none of us would have if my kids were just white. This is because I spend a lot of time with just me and them (think school registration, doctor's appointments, dentist appointments, playground time) and people will ask ME "where are they from", or are they mine, or even our dentist asked "what nationality is she"....."nationality"--what a weird question. I said, well, she's american obviously. I knew she was asking about ethnicity but I wanted to make a subtle point that nationality was not the right word.

Anyway, because of this subtle "othering", I wanted them to have an answer early. They know they were born here, but Dad was born somewhere else.

My son only has about 6 "friends" bc he doesn't go to daycare/preschool. 1 is black and 1 is multiracial with a darker skin tone; both adopted by a white family, and there's no black adults in his life (yet.) The girl is named Mya and boy is named Jay; and whenever DS sees a dark-skinned character in a book he calls them Mya or Jay. Other than that, I haven't heard him say anything race-related yet, age 3.

DS is almost 6 and has been in a daycare since he was 1 were there are many ethnicities among the teachers & kids. I think there has only ever been one white teacher there and we are also white. Different skin colours and celebrating a variety of holidays has been his normal.

I’d say around 4 he started to differentiate skin colours. The first time I remember he was telling me something and said the lady with the brown face. Even now in kindergarten he will describe someone by hair or skin colour.

He knows that people come from places all I over the world and they did a project at school about this. We haven’t got into any bigger conversations yet. I’m just not sure when or how.

My DD is in Kindergarten and she just started commenting on race/ethnicity the language she uses is all about hair color. Her teacher taught MLK through hair color. I think that was a good starting point to show how arbitrary judging based on skin color is. We talked skin color at home but she continues to talk in terms of hair color.

She asked a friend if she was Chinese. And she asked why her friend's hair color is different than her mom's. I pointed out that DD's hair color is different than mine (we're white) but DD just glared at me like that was not what she was talking about.

I also mentioned in another thread recently that my daughter wouldn't hold hands with a black girl. I am relieved to say that this week she held hands with a different black girl in her Girl Scout troop and accepted the invitation to her birthday party (after refusing the other girl's invite). When DD described the girl she said "the girl with the brown hair."

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Yeah, I know the religious explanation won't work for everyone. But we do have religious beliefs, and she's already learned that God made her just the way she is, so it seemed to fit.

I also think I'm a bit unsure what the best thing to say at this age is. Especially growing up in the south and having older relatives who say inappropriate things, a lot of times without them even realizing that it's inappropriate, I haven't had a great role model to follow but am trying to figure out the best way to teach her going forward.

I remember reading the chapter in Nurture Shock about actively discussing race and being blown away by it. I haven't talked to my 4 yo about race yet and I'm now realizing I need to do so as the major point of the article is that kids will pick up on differences on their own and if you don't explicitly teach the ideals you want them to have then they may be more prone to a natural in-group bias. This appears to be an excerpt if anyone is interested in reading. https://www.newsweek.com/even-babies-discriminate-nurtureshock-excerpt-79233

@JennyPenny: oh man, I heard the NPR segment about that chapter and even so, I've learned that if you leave kids with no information on a subject, they will fill in the blanks themselves.

I take the kids shopping more often than my husband (I just mean to the supermarket or Target) and they will always beg for any little trinket or art/craft thing they see, so my standard answer is that I don't have money for that today. I felt like I was doing a good job by teaching them about budgets and not buying fun stuff every time we grocery shop.

But....my husband, who takes them far less often, DID happen to buy them a little trinket or new container of playdough or whatever when he took them, twice in a row.

So the next time I took them to Target, I prepped them in advance and said, "remember, we are only buying things on the list. We are not buying toys or craft supplies for ourselves". And then DD1 piped up and loudly said, "Yes, because mommies don't have money! Only daddies do!"

So then I had to circle back and say......well, I *have* the money, I just don't want to spend it on extras every time we go shopping, because then we aren't on budget. But I'm sure my kids were still wondering why daddy doesn't have to stay on budget and can buy special treats.

@ElbieKay: I totally agree. The relatives I'm referring to are from my childhood and are now long dead and gone. My parents never made those remarks that I heard, but they didn't correct them either. They were a lot more accepting of diversity but didn't ever have frank conversations with us as kids. I guess that's where I'm trying to forge my own way.

There is a great episode of The Longest Shortest Time podcast about this. When we avoid talking about race with kids, they infer that there is something taboo or shameful about it. We are very open and matter of fact with our kids. She's been talking about skin color and racial differences from a young age and at 5 she still does. She knows what "black" and "white" mean in common usage but usually says "brown" "gold" and "peach."

I think about this often. We live in SE Asia and my Caucasian looking children are a minority (they are 1/4 Chinese, but you can’t tell), so we have white and Asian family on three continents. Their school is probably half white, and the other half is a mix of mixed-race kids and Asian kids. Being mixed race myself, on the rare occasion that I go to school I feel like I fit in, which is the first time I’ve ever had the feeling of “hey, I look like these people”. There a few other races like African or people from the Middle East. I only know my LOs main teachers. So when they talk about the teacher from dance class or a teacher for drawing class, I ask what language the teacher speaks, or I ask if the teacher is French or Thai or something else. I am still not sure what my kids see when talking about different traits, or what they notice when it comes to race. Even with my 8yo, I don’t know if he can describe what typical SE Asian traits are. We live in a condo with at least 30 different nationalities, so my kids do see people from literally all over the world. But I’m concerned about my kids understanding racism and I’m concerned about them understanding white privilege, especially when we leave Asia.

This is something I think about a lot and still feel so flummoxed about sometimes! Particularly because I'm an academic whose research deals with inequalities, but in ways that are completely not developmentally appropriate for explaining to my kids at this stage

Our daycare is part of a larger education institution which includes a social justice pedagogy, but for kids under 5 the emphasis seems to be on acknowledging differences of all kinds and talking about how wonderful they are because they make us unique and also noticing qualities that we share. And then when we do talk about prejudice and discrimination, emphasizing that stereotypes aren't "friendly" or "kind" and we want to work against them. In terms of talking about abilities (because there are a lot of kids with special needs and also mixed-age classrooms), they use language like "everyone is working on different skills," whether they be physical (ie, monkey-bars), cognitive (recognizing letters) or social-emotional (self-regulation, like my daughter as a 4 year old once told her teacher "I'm working on not yelling at my friends when I'm mad!" lol). They also talk a lot about belonging to multiple, sometimes overlapping different communities, like family/school, neighborhood, city, country, etc, which can later be zoomed out to get kids thinking about community/political activism.

But all that said, it's hard in practice when stereotypes come out of lo1's mouth (lo2 is just learning to speak so hasn't asked yet) . She is exposed to a lot of diversity since we're in NYC, and I have tried to keep my explanations grounded in the realities she knows. So like, the one time it really came up was when she was around 3. We were traveling and I had brought 2 mini baby-dolls for her and lo2 to share--one with dark skin, one white. Lo1 out of nowhere started saying she wanted the white one because it was "prettier" and she liked its skin better I told her that wasn't kind, and talked about the people she loves and knows who have different skin colors, and she was like, "oh yeah, I forgot!" and then played with both. There's a natural tendency to try to group/categorize people at this age--she's also said similar head-scratching things about what boys vs girls can do when we have always emphasized gender neutrality (like, boys can wear dresses if they want, girls can play with trains, girls can marry girls, etc), so it's just gently redirecting that helps. And books that have messages about diversity and inclusion in developmentally appropriate ways, like she really responded to "Same Same But Different," "Marlon Bundo," "Julian is a Mermaid," etc. We recently got one by Chelsea Clinton "She Persisted" that starts introducing historical barriers, and she liked that one a lot too and it prompted some discussions about how racism and sexism function by limiting opportunities

@daniellemybelle: I loved that episode!! I think it's called White Guilt for anyone wanting to listen. It gets back to the whole "colorblind" way of thinking--"I don't see color!" actually makes talking about race a negative thing, which only makes for a society filled with adults who lack the proper understanding/vocabulary for approaching respectful conversations about race and privilege.