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@Arden: I hear you. Fortunately for our girls, it's becoming more and more acceptable to nurture more "powerful" personalities, leading to hobbies, interests, and professions that reflect that.
Sadly, I think it's still going to be a while before it's considered socially sound for boys to be more sensitive, and gravitate towards items, activities and roles currently stereotyped as "delicate" or "feminine".
The toy aisle is the perfect example of this type of pigeon-holing, and it's unfortunate.
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@Greentea: Checked out that everyday feminism site! I love it. Thank you for sharing!!
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I hear the 'I won't let my son wear a skirt because I don't want him to be teased' argument often, and it always gives me pause. Obviously, it's coming from a place of love and concern. But I wonder - if you're telling your child it isn't ok to wear a skirt (for whatever reason, even out of concern for them), aren't you're the first one teaching that lesson? Maybe you're doing it more gently than other children might, but you're teaching that lesson one way or another.
It really comes down to your ideas about gender. Is it ok for boys to wear skirts, or is it not? If it isn't, for you, that's one belief. But (one thing that) GNP means, for me, that it is fundamentally ok for a boy to wear a skirt. I'd never require a son to wear one, because society really isn't kind to that child. But in my heart, it is ok - and that's the society I'd like to see. That's what I'll teach my children, and I'll support them in whatever gender roles they choose.
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@beaker: My brother's favourite shirt was pink when he was about 2-3, and he turned out to be the most macho guy I know!
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@sarac: exactly this.
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@sarac: I agree, well said.
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@Arden: I felt the same way until I went to see my dad's side of the family this weekend. They're VERY anti anything girly for a boy, but they're pretty good about letting girls play with and wear what they want. I grew up with an easy bake oven AND a tool set. But when I was there, among other things I got told the reason I can't do pull ups is because I'm a girl, and my 12 year old brother totally freaked out that there was a girl on a video game wearing boxing gear, and when I said girls could box too, he just said, "well, they'd lose." The ways they force gender crap on girls is different, but unfortunately like you said, it's there.
@sarac: Yes, that's exactly right! I might engage a son who wanted to wear a skirt in a discussion about bullying, but *I* would 100% support his right to do so. It would probably be harder to decide what to do if he wanted to wear one around my family though. I just think they'd be meaner than any kids at school or anything, to be honest. Which is sad.
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@PawPrints: That thread is part of what got me wanting to buy the book! That article is actually an excerpt from the book.
It's really fascinating stuff.
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@Torchwood: Fantastic! Now I need to read the whole book.
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I honestly don't get the whole let you son wear a skirt line of conversation. Is that all there is to being a girl? That she can wear skirts? I don't dress my son in skirts but I probably wouldn't dress my (hypothetical) daughter in them most of the time anyway, because they are not practical. Plus if if ever have a girl she'll be wearing her brother's hand me downs. I got a minor in WMST and I don't think that any of my professors would have advocated putting a boy in a skirt as a way to strike out against the patriarchy because that is basically reinforcing the idea that being female is the sum of your appearance and your buying habits.
I definitely identify with the idea of letting my son express his emotions and not always shushing him, etc. I don't have a little girl so can't comment on those issues. I think pink is pretty trendy for boys these days so that isn't an issue for me. Not sure what we'll do when we get to the age of superhero vs. Barbie, but I suspect we will be avoiding Barbie because of her unnatural looks. My son does have a doll but he is a boy doll.
ETA: changed "femininity" to "being female"
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Interesting discussion! I'm having a boy in a very rural, conservative area and this is a sensitive topic for me. I want to give my son freedom to express himself but also feel like I have to toe the line to protect him from mean comments from others.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Really, the emphasis of it is in no way on letting a boy wear a skirt. The point of it is mostly to a- overcome our natural biases and not treat our kids differently because of their gender. Like we tend to view girls as more sensitive and social, and boys as more physical. So it's good to make a point to not forget to encourage sensitivity and such in boys when they display it, and to roughhouse with girls or encourage them when they do something showing how strong they are. And b- respect their choices even when it means letting them do something or wear something that society might think is wrong because it's not right for the gender role they try to pigeon hole people into.
The issue of letting a boy dress like a girl becomes the topic that is discussed the most because it's the thing that you're going to get the most flak for, and the thing that puts your kid at risk for bullying. But the point isn't that you're going to put your infant boy in a dress, or even encourage an older boy to wear a skirt. It's about respecting his choice if he WANTS to wear a skirt, and not letting societally imposed ideas of what he "should" wear limit his choices. The book quotes one statistic that says 85% of gender bending kids will grow up to be cisgender (gender identity is the same as their physical sex) adults. So for the vast majority of kids, wearing clothes that aren't "right" for their sex isn't about a boy wanting to be feminine or a girl wanting to be masculine. It's just what they like. It's the adults and people who judge them for it that ascribe those motives to their choices. I assure you, advocates of gender neutral parenting are NOT advocating " putting a boy in a skirt as a way to strike out against the patriarchy."
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@Torchwood: I think we are saying the same thing! I was just a little frustrated with how the conversation was moving, away from GNP techniques that everyone can agree on, to a polarizing discussion about skirt wearing, that seemed to be started by people who want to assume the worst of the movement. I'd like to believe that anyone--even someone who didn't spend a lot of time reading gender theory in college, as I did--could see that such a conversation, even if well-intended, is at best a red herring and at worst actually works to reinforce gender norms.
I think the thing to do is if you notice your son wants to wear a skirt, don't think to yourself "ok he is selecting a gender identity" but instead just say "oh he likes that because it has bugs on it, or he likes to twirl." Until my son learns that things like skirts or dolls are gendered, I'm not going to assume his interest (or lack thereof) has anything to do with gender at all!
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Exactly! Yes, sounds like we totally agree.
It's really fascinating stuff.
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