My mother has always been abusive (mostly verbal and negligent, but occasionally physical). When I was a kid I would find shelter in going to visit my dad twice a month and in school, etc. Once I got to college I managed my relationship with her via distance. I have tried to maintain my relationship with her carefully for the sake of my kids. Recently she did something very problematic (emotional blackmail to prevent us all from going to a family funeral) and when I stood up to her, she was extremely verbally abusive and she made some very generalized threats at getting access to my kids without my permission. My 3 year old son loves her and I fear that cutting her out entirely would hurt him and possibly hurt our relationship because kids don't understand why adults choose to cut off. My current plan is to go no contact for at least a month and then maybe have some limited contact-- in a public place, with husband present, etc. But truly I fantasize about just cutting her out completely. Have you ever gone no contact with a family member? How did you manage this? How has it affected your children or your relationships with extended family? Is it worth it?
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We don't contact my husband's sister. She pulled a few too many stunts on us where she tried to make us out to be the bad guy when in reality, we were doing everything we could to promote peace and harmony in the family. We haven't seen her (or her 3 kids
) in 7 years. We haven't spoken in 3. It's sad that our daughter won't know her cousins but it is better for all of us.
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@mediagirl: what do his parents think? Has it impacted your relationship with them? I have three siblings in their 20s that I would like to keep a relationship with.
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Honestly, if she's emotionally abusive, I'd cut her out and not look back. While your son might be sad in the short term, I think it's much safer and healthier in the long term to have this person out of his life.
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I think we're close to cutting sil out of our lives, though probably more in a we-won't-initiate-contact kind of way than anything else as dh usually just avoids/ignores drama with his family. But we've realized we can't count on her for anything except emotional abuse (toward mil mostly but also dh; never directly to me or lo), extreme selfishness, and playing the victim. We don't live in the same city so lo is rarely around her--if she was, or if her wrath was focused on me/lo, I'd be more adamant about proactively shielding her from sil.
ETA mil would understand if we cut off sil though probably be "sad" about it and guilt trip dh endlessly, even though she's talked about cutting her off too and she's the one who bears the brunt of sil's abuse. but, mil completely enables her as well--they have a totally toxic, codependent relationship imo....
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We have no contact with one of DH's sisters. His parents understand completely where we are coming from. We also had to let them know we didn't want to hear about her problems through them (aka they didn't need to give us a status update on her). We did say that we were willing to be cordial for family events but we choose not to speak to her and she's not allowed to be alone with our children. We have said we are happy to host family events (thanksgiving, christmas, etc) at our house but she is not welcome in our home. We cut ties before they really knew much about her so I'm not even sure they know her as an aunt.
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I will answer this from the point of view of the child. My mother's mother was somewhat emotionally abusive to her and even though we didn't go completely "no contact" with her when I was a child, we definitely went through periods where I would not see her for months at a time (she lived a 10 min drive from our home so that was odd). When I was old enough, I started to understand why we were not that close to her so I was never that sad about it. Actually as I got older, I think we had even less contact with her, to the point where I might see her once per year as a teen. These days, I go years without seeing her (saw her once at my mom's funeral 6 years ago, and once since them).
I will say that I wish I had a good relationship with her, but knowing what I know about her, I'm glad my mom gave priority to her own mental health. Also, saying that I wish I had a relationship with her is akin to wishing for a new grandparent, since she doesn't have good relationships with anyone (even my cousins whose parents did not distance themselves from her).
The only thing I would say that my parents should have done differently was that my dad in particular would always say the nastiest things about her, about what a terrible mom she was to my mother, what a selfish person, etc, etc. I grew up thinking she was a monster. I wish my parents had taken the higher ground and not portrayed her so terribly.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: they keep quiet about it. They are not pushy people. They just let it go and when they talk to her, they don't talk about us. When they talk to us, they don't talk about them. It's so weird but whatever. It's better for us this way.
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I see my dad at Christmas always, then a few more times throughout the year, I talk to him maybe once every 2 months for 5min on the phone. It is my version of no contact. I don't feel the need to cut him off officially, but over the years I reduced contact gradually, and it is so much better for me. I tried to reach out and visit more the past few years since I had LO #1, but he's had some behavior in the past 6 months that made me feel that I shouldn't put the effort in, and have reverted back to not going out of my way. This works for me, but I guess may not if your mom aggressively pursues contact/visits
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I would never want to allow him the opportunity to see her treat you abusively and have to interpret that. I would think cutting her off would be far more beneficial for him in the long run.
There are tons of resources and books on the matter. Babycenter has a group 'DWIL Nation' that is pretty tough, but they are also aware of a lot of resources out there to help you navigate it all.
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@Truth Bombs: Totally agree.
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My husband's brother and only sibling. He's a criminal and horrible person but being the eldest, he's MIL's golden child. 10+ years ago my husband couldn't take it anymore and dropped all communication. He was tired of the 'family obligation' seeing him for holidays. He wouldn't stand for the crazy charade.
MIL doesn't really understand it but she also doesn't acknowledge the brother criminal behavior and shitty personality. Probably because it would admit a flaw in herself and his upbringing. (DH was raised in a very abusive household and she won't acknowledge it to this day. Pretends it was fine, the way things were then, they're from another country, etc.)No regrets.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I wholeheartedly agree with @Truth Bombs:. Additionally, I wouldn't hesitate to get a restraining order against her to the extent that she has threatened the physical safety of your children.
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@whiskers: thank you for the DWIL link; this thread was especially useful to me as a daughter of a narcissist (well I suspect...she will never get a diagnosis because narcissists never reach rock bottom). Anyway here's the link: http://community.babycenter.com/post/a63406270
@pwnstar: if she gets more specific I think I will. DH is an attorney and wasn't sure if the threat she lobbed was specific enough. She has been trying to get me to not contact my siblings (with respect to the funeral thing). When I told her she couldn't stop me from reaching out to them she rejoined with "and you won't be able to control the relationship I have with my grandchildren either!". Difference is my siblings are in their 20s, my kids are 1 and 3, lol. Wasn't really sure what to make of that threat but I told DH if she shows up I will call police and I've had my door locked when we are at home.
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@catlady: I had a very similar experience growing up. We saw my grandparents maybe once or twice a year when I was very young and then several years would go by between visits. I never really questioned it, that's just how it was. When I finally found out why, well, I completely understood my mom's reasoning and wish I had known at a younger age (like as a young teen instead of a young adult). Because of this, I see no reason to maintain a relationship with abusive people, even if they are family.
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In taking a 6 month no contact trial with my Dad for some of the reasons you mentioned. We are two months in. I feel good about it. It's strained my relationship with my Mom since they are still married, but it's worth it.
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I've cut my dad out of my life. My sister has as well for similar and even more justifiable reasons than my own. It was so exhausting trying to maintain a relationship with someone who has issues that were affecting our parent/child relationship. It's been 5 1/2 years since I cut him out after some disgusting behavior after my nephew passed away. He wasn't invited to my wedding, he hasn't met my son and doesn't know his name. My brother has started emailing and mailing letters back and forth with him and has even tried to convince my sister and I to communicate with him, but he had a different relationship with him and is too far removed from what happened to understand why we don't want a relationship with our dad.
Everyone has to make the decision on their own, but I'm a big advocate for cutting toxic people out, even family members if it means that your health and well being improve because of it.
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I want to come back to read these, I just don't have time today.
But, my sister removed all contact with our entire family because of my Dad and her husband. I can't fully grasp the details as they haven't been shared with me. She hasn't been present in my life since at least 1996! Shoot that's 20 years! It hurts. I'm sad. We are just now starting to mention my sister's name to my older daughter. She knows I'm married and have two girls but makes no attempt to contact me at all. I still send a Christmas card annually.
I'd love to cease contact with my Dad. He's extremely toxic. But him and my Mom are still married. He's slowly destroying her and I hate it. I've severely limited my contact with him and do my best to keep my Mom a priority.
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We are no longer in contact with DH's sister. She just became a really nasty person once LO1 was born. DH's parents totally blame me for the poor relationship when it was SIL that was bullying me and I refused to put up with it. To makes some peace, we went to her wedding and things seemed to thaw a little bit until the next family event we all had to attend. Then she was right back to the same antics. Went out of her way to be a total bitch for no reason. She lives closer to DH's parents and is much more vocal about everything so of course they side with her. It's not my place to bad mouth their daughter to them so I've never said a word. We have a slightly awkward relationship with DH's parents now but it has been getting better. We have had no contact with SIL for over a year and it is just amazing how the more distance we get the easier it gets all around. I just feel kind of bad for our LO's because I know there are several family events we are excluded from because of her. We could totally make more of an effort to see DH's side of the family but I kind of leave it up to him and he just doesn't.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: My mother cut her mother off for several years when we were children. Similar situation. Honestly we didn't really notice, children are busy and preoccupied so it was kind of out of sight, out of mind. As I got older it was obvious to me with no explanations why it had happened and I am not close with my grandmother by choice. It sounds like it may be best for your children if you limit their contact, at least at this point.
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@MamaG: speaking from experience my mother is a narcissist I believe and narcs tend to divide siblings into roles like "golden child" and "scape goat.". My mother was horribly abusive to the children from her original marriage and my stepfathers original marriage, but she is different with the children from her current marriage. She smothers and controls them. It is equally damaging as the abuse, and keeps all children in line in the same way. My mother has been working hard all week to make me look like the bad guy to everyone in my family. I am at the point where fighting back only makes me look like an aggressor and unless my siblings want an individual relationship with me, I probably won't be able to have one. Perhaps some element of this story is relevant to yours.
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@MamaG: also I haven't shared all details with my siblings because I don't want them to have to choose between sister and mom (they can't anyway because they are not financially independent and live at home). Every time I try to explain myself to my siblings my mother accuses me of being a manipulative hypocrite. I think you should reach out to your sister! She may come out of her shell if she feels safe.
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@MamaG: one last thing! My mother refused to let anyone go to her MILs funeral because beef. So yea I know what you mean about a toxic parent draining another parent. But my stepdad is an enabler and culpable and although I express my love to him I have given up on trying to help him by enabling my mother.
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I have not, but in your situation I don't think I'd hesitate. Not only because I want to protect my own sanity (and feelings) but also as someone else mentioned earlier, I'd hate for my children to have that kind of behavior as a model for any kind of relationship.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Thanks for responding. My sister/Dad deal started when I was just finishing high school and my early college years. Unfortunately for my sister I think her husband is a mirror image of my Dad. So I tread water trying to figure out if it's worth trying to restore the relationship. I just don't know if I'm ready to hurt all over again.
My parents have been married for over 50 years. It's hard!
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I have no contact with my aunt. She has always been negative and jealous toward me. She didn't come to my high school graduation, and she only came to my college graduation because my grandma basically bribed her. We were never very close, but my grandma wanted me to extend the olive branch, so when I was wedding planning, I made a big deal about making her feel included. I invited her and her family to the rehearsal dinner even though it was only for immediate family, and I made sure she had one of the best tables at the reception. Three days before my wedding, she emailed me to say she wasn't coming. She said her tire on her car needed to be replaced, and she didn't have the money to do it. I told my grandma, and she offered to pay for a car rental so my aunt could come, but she still declined. I know she didn't want to come to my wedding, and she was just making up excuses, but I don't understand why she didn't RSVP no from the beginning. After that drama I never contacted her again, and that was almost four and a half years ago. She never contacts me either, so I guess the feeling is mutual.
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I've cut all ties with my alcoholic mother, she doesn't know my son and never will. I have 2 sisters and one still talks to her. I have no problem cutting ties family or not. just because you gave birth to me does not mean you have or had the right to do the things you've done. The way I see it, I have my child to protect, it's unfortunate I'm protecting him from my mother.
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@MamaG: I totally understand this. I tolerated my dad to maintain my relationship with my mom. They divorced finally when I was 25.
@Mrs. Sketchbook: my dad is also a narcissist, but an antisocial narcissist. After my parents' divorce my relationship initially improved with my father, but ultimately did not work out. I haven't seen him in 3 years and have had basically no contact with him in that time. He had met my LO when she was a baby. She doesn't remember but there are a couple photos she has. I don't think it'll affect her long term.
My two younger siblings also do not have contact with our dad. But our older half-brother, who did not grow up in our household but with his mother, does have a relationship with our dad. The relationship is strained and requires constant vigilance regarding boundaries. What I have found most helpful is the respect my older brother has for my decision to not have a relationship with our dad. I don't think he understands but he does respect my opinion.
Best of luck. Narcissism is tough. They don't hit rock bottom. Unless they need you, you have no value. I "justify" my decision to not have a relationship with him by thinking that he doesn't truly miss my absence, so it's not harming him and it has a net positive effect on me.
) in 7 years. We haven't spoken in 3. It's sad that our daughter won't know her cousins but it is better for all of us.
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