what is your reaction to the supreme court's ruling in the hobby lobby case?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hobby-lobby-wins-contraceptive-ruling-supreme-court/story?id=24364311
what is your reaction to the supreme court's ruling in the hobby lobby case?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hobby-lobby-wins-contraceptive-ruling-supreme-court/story?id=24364311
GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts
Don't have time to read the opinion right now, but after reading this from that article: "Alito was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts, Justice Antonin Scalia and Justice Clarence Thomas," I'm guessing I'll disagree with it!
grapefruit / 4545 posts
I'm pleasantly surprised...
But as a disclaimer I generally am opposed to Obamacare so any hit against it would make me happy.
Regardless...I support the separation of church and state - I dont think its wrong for a privately held corporate to have religious values they want upheld within their company.
blogger / coconut / 8306 posts
I disagree with it. I took BCP for medical reasons for years, and to have coverage denied because of my employer... Yikes.
honeydew / 7295 posts
I completely disagree and hobby lobby is one of many places that will not have my business.
pomegranate / 3791 posts
I think it's bullshit and sets us back many years. @Mrs D: and @Smurfette, how can you support separation of church and state but agree with this ruling? What's next? If the owners of a different corporation believe that earth is overpopulated and reproduction should be limited (because there are groups that legitimately believe in that), should they be allowed to deny maternity coverage or leave to their employees? If another corporation owner belongs to a religion that does not believe in medical interventions, should they be exempt from having to provide health insurance if they would otherwise be required to do so? And hey, if Hobby Lobby is allowed to change their health insurance to fit their religious beliefs, why not just allow them to discriminate in their hiring process and stop hiring anyone who is gay, has sex outside marriage, etc? I think there are about a million things that are wrong with this ruling.
bananas / 9628 posts
@Mrs D: if i'm employed by jehovah's witnesses & require a blood transfusion, should my ins not cover that because it goes against the religion of my employers?
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
I agree with the ruling from a business perspective like Mrs. D has said.
@Mrs. Jump Rope: I agree, it may be a hit for some workers but if it is company provided health care, they still have the option to purchase birth control on their own or purchase their own health insurance plan all together. So its not like this is a ruling that says anyone that works there can't have birth control.
ETA: I believe that you earn a job and it is a privilege. So if you don't agree with the company and don't want to accept the benefits they offer, then you can choose to search for employment elsewhere. Obviously this is a line because workplace safety and discrimination aren't what I would consider a "benefit" or "privilege".
pear / 1837 posts
@wonderstruck: exactly what you said. It's shocking, to me, that this was the outcome. It's 2014!
pomegranate / 3791 posts
@mrs. bird: Another excellent example of the awful precedent being set here.
blogger / pomelo / 5361 posts
@lawbee11: We're so opposite.
I've only skimmed the opinion, but I generally agree with the legal reasoning and result. I do think it will result in a line of case law further interpreting exactly what that means in the big picture of insurance coverage, private corporations, and freedom of religion.
grapefruit / 4545 posts
@wonderstruck: I understand your point. I guess for me, I am pretty much against most all government involvement in our business/lives anyways - so for me I am happy to this outcome. This is why the legislation was terrible to begin with - it puts the government where they dont belong.
pear / 1510 posts
I'm horrified. How is it possible that my BOSS gets to have a say in my health care decisions? Where is the freedom in that?
I can only hope that this will be one part of a long line of ridiculousness that lead us away from employer based health care to a single payer system.
pear / 1510 posts
@Mrs D: But doesn't it also put my employer where he doesn't belong?
coconut / 8234 posts
I'm appalled. It seems like the rights of women are slowly being taken away. This is now a slippery slope, how many other corporations and businesses (not exempt like churches are) are going to claim "Oh it's against my religion?" It's against my religion to support/pay for xyz. Hobby Lobby is NOT a church and their business is not religious.
grapefruit / 4545 posts
@mrs. bird: I think health insurance is a part of an overall benefits package. If you are properly informed of your employers willingness to cover ABC items and unwillingness to cover XYZ then you make employment decisions accordingly knowing you may need to obtain extra coverage. No one forced you to work for who you work for.
Not trying to argue, just sharing my opinion. I respect that it is just that and other are welcome to disagree.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@BlueWolverine: See my ETA above. You still have the freedom to either be employed elsewhere or purchase your own coverage. If it is a benefit your employer is providing, they should determine what they cover.
bananas / 9628 posts
@Mrs. Jump Rope: my mother was employed by a catholic hospital for many years. i understand why as a catholic hospital they would not cover birth control, but even they would cover hers once she had a note explaining the reason she needed it. i'm not suggesting the women need to justify their reproductive choices to be granted coverage, i'm just saying that even the catholic church, which i believe has the right to religious beliefs being protected since they are a religious organization, not a for profit company, even they were willing to be flexible regarding bc coverage because they understood it wasn't all black and white & that if the dr felt there was a reason for it, that was good enough for them
grapefruit / 4545 posts
@BlueWolverine: to be fair, you have choice over your healthcare - you can always pay out of pocket.
pomegranate / 3791 posts
@BlueWolverine: I would love it if the last part of your post happened. DH works for a small business that does not offer health insurance. Have you guys ever priced out how much insurance with maternity coverage is if you have no choice but to pay for it out of pocket? It's absolutely insane. And opinions on Obamacare aside, that is something that it helped get under control - possibly to the detriment of those who don't require that kind of coverage. But that's all basically a symptom of a larger problem with health insurance companies.
kiwi / 687 posts
Completely agree. The year 2014 has nothing to do with a private company's obligation to pay for elective medications. They're not forcing pregnancy or illness on anyone. Every woman working for them still has complete freedom to manage her fertility as she pleases, just not on the company's dime. Totally reasonable. I would have lost all faith in the usefulness of the Supreme Court if they'd ruled that the Constitution could uphold the contraception mandate.
pear / 1510 posts
@T.H.O.U.: My employer pays for my premium, which I'm incredibly grateful for. To suggest that I could find the same coverage on the open market is naive. I really hate the idea that people can just up and quit their jobs if they don't like what's going on. It's unrealistic for most people, especially people of limited means.
GOLD / wonderful olive / 19030 posts
I'm so against this ruling, so it is always going to be a base by base situation? Like @mrs. bird: where do they draw the line. BC is out, but what about a blood transfusion/transplant?
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@T.H.O.U.: I totally agree. It is pretty common knowledge Hobby Lobby's religious beliefs, so don't work there.
While I don't support them not providing BC, morning after pill, etc, I think it is their right to not provide them (and pay for them).
bananas / 9628 posts
@wonderstruck: i totally agree about how this could spread into allowing companies to use religion as a BS excuse to have bigoted hiring practices. it's very frightening!
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@BlueWolverine: I hate that it costs more to get the same coverage too, but thats part of supply and demand and bulk pricing. Should the general public be entitled to Dell business pricing just because a company can purchase computers for $100 when they place a bulk order? Of course not.
I hate too that its not easy for people to just quit their jobs if they don't like whats going on, but if you really have an issue, you will fight to figure out a way.
grapefruit / 4545 posts
Honestly asking (and not just being a jerk because I understand there are bigger issues at play here than just contraceptives) but cant you get contraceptives at planned parenthood for relatively inexpensive? Would you be able to use them as a resource if you happened to work for an employer who refused to offer this in their plan?
GOLD / pineapple / 12662 posts
I am surprised (and troubled) by the fact that the Supremes have seemingly placed the (closely held) corporation owners' interests above the interests of individual citizens. I have not read the opinion in full yet, but will later.
As an aside, Ginsburg gets a standing ovation from me for reading the dissent aloud from the bench.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
And this is why I don't understand why in the US we don't move to a system where health insurance is separate from your employer.
eta: Is hobby lobby privately owned? I think yes?
GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts
@MsLipGloss: I thought the same thing when I saw that she read the dissent from the bench. Ruth is my homegirl
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
I think ObamaCare is kind of like the Articles of Confederation that founded the USA (but for healthcare). It's a step towards something better, but as problems emerge with it (including the Supreme Court rulings re: Medicaid and contraception)... the need for a whole new system will become more clear to everyone.
In the case of the Articles of Confederation, they were eventually replaced by a much stronger Constitution. In the case of ObamaCare, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is replaced by a single-payer system.
nectarine / 2079 posts
@BlueWolverine: I agree!
I've never even used birth control, but I am not okay with the ruling.
pear / 1998 posts
I think having access to free (subsidized) birth control is good for our country (financially and medically) so I think it is reasonable for the government to include it as a part of health insurance requirements. I think debate about this aspect is acceptable (whether or not it should be included), but religion should not be a factor.
What I don't think is acceptable is that Hobby Lobby can pick and choose what they deem "holy/moral/acceptable" based on their religious views.
pomegranate / 3791 posts
@Mrs D: I'm honestly not positive - I would assume it depends on the type of contraceptive you need and what your income level is. To me I'm more concerned about what this could lead to than the simple issue of not having birth control paid for.
Today | Monthly Record | |
---|---|---|
Topics | 1 | 0 |
Posts | 0 | 1 |
Ask for Help
Make a Suggestion
Frequently Asked Questions
Bee Levels
Acronyms
Most Viewed Posts
Hellobee Gold
Hellobee Recipes
Hellobee Features
Hellobee Contests
Baby-led Weaning
Bento Boxes
Breastfeeding
Newborn Essentials
Parties
Postpartum Care Essentials
Sensory Play Activities
Sleep Training
Starting Solids Gear
Transitioning to Toddler Bed
All Series
Who We Are
About the Bloggers
About the Hostesses
Contributing Bloggers
Apply to Blog
Apply to Hostess
Submit a Guest Blog
Hellobee Buttons
How We Make Money
Community Policies