to say... put their pajamas on? or put their shoes on? I lost my temper with almost 5 year old tonight - because EVERY DAY I have to tell him at least 10 times to do something.. but if I said get your shoes on we are going to the candy store you can bet he would listen then.. am I expecting too much of him?
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@oskarsmommy: For my 5 yo would say 4-7 times for most things. Today when I picked my 3.5yo up from school he was cleaning up all the toys from the play area. My jaw was almost on the floor because he would never do that for me
with all the asking in the world. Then his teacher told me that they just give a gummy or M&M everytime he does something he's been asked to do. š¤¦The thing that works best for us (besides candy bribes) is asking for LOs attention first before asking them to do something. But then I get stuck repeatedly asking for their attention so it is not a perfect system.
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Depends what it is, but we are starting to get stricter, meaning, we are trying to be more clear what the consequences are and just follow through, rather than repeat ourselves over and over again. It usually sticks better that way, rather than us scolding them.
ETA, and no I personally don't think your expectations are too high. Obviously certain times they will get distracted. But imo by that age it's ok to expect them to accomplish certain tasks and routines on their own or with minimal direction. They can, but they know what they can get away with too.
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We do something that I think is called tomato staking. If we see DD struggling like that, I make it a priority to stay right by her side for at least three days. Itās inconvenient but it seems to really work.
So normally, I might be doing other things to get ready to leave while asking her to put her shoes on. But with tomato staking, first I plan some extra time (or know we might be late), get my stuff together first, and then ask her to put her shoes on, with me right there with her. I donāt do any of these things FOR her, but Iām right there the whole time at eye level and going with her to the shoe area, etc. The same with putting away toys, etc.
The technique has a few benefits. One is that youāre focusing 100% on encouraging and overseeing their behavior, so youāre reinforcing what they should be doing without just talking about it. Also, the intense attention makes it harder for them to disobey (I only say the command once, then if she doesnāt do it I physically take her hand and guide her over to the thing). It breaks the old habit the child created and creates a new one. And finally, it shows the child how much they should value their freedomāby day 3, sheās ready to be doing all this on her own and is tired of constant supervision. I talk to her about trust and how she can go back to doing things on her own if I can trust her to follow through. Sheās young enough that Iām not sure she really gets that, but she seems to instinctively know that big girls get to do stuff on their own.
It doesnāt always work, but itās the best weāve come up with so far. That, and I have to remind myself to break my own habitsāif I want her to obey the first time, I should only ask once and take action after that (either guiding her physically or giving a time out or whatever), not repeating myself over and over. Itās hard, though!
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@Hypatia: we do a bit of that too, but sometimes more or less days just depending how it's going.. didn't know there was a name for it!
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Usually when I find something repeating like this (so you said it happens everyday) I find because the kids think itās the routine. So you ask, he doesnāt listen repeat until you yell. So i try to do something to break that routine and create a new one. A reward for listening (even just attention or a hug) or a punishment if we absolutely need to (natural consequences if we can - like i ask once you donāt pick up we miss fun event) Or changing the order of things or whatever. Something to shake it up and create a new routine where listening is whatās expected. Someone mentioned music on a thread - so when a song comes on they know they have 2 mins to pick up. Something to change it up
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My 5 year old is kind of a meanderer. If I go upstairs with him and tell him to put on his PJs heāll take off his shirt and then maybe throw it and think thatās hilarious. Then heāll sit down and do a somersault on the floor then heāll take off one sock and put it in the hamper. Heāll spend some time checking out his penis when his underwearās off. I have to constantly refocus his attention.
He is better with shorter steps, like putting on shoes. Heās also usually motivated to leave the house so that oneās quicker.
But as much as he does things in his incredibly slow way, he does usually go do them. I donāt usually have a case where I tell him to get dressed or get pajamas on and goes off and plays with or toy or does something else entirely. I agree with others that if he needed to be told more than once, and not just refocused on finishing the task, there would either be consequences for not listening or I would be next to him making sure it got done.
One other thing Iāve started trying will sound kind of hokey. But I took this management training class based on tons of research and they talked about different methods of communication. When we say āGo put your clothes onā its called directive communication. And most people will respond better and their brains will kind of turn on better if you use requestive communication. So saying, āCan you go put on your clothes now.ā
I know it sounds weird. But weād get in cycles before where Iād say the same thing about ten times in a row, and heād still be doing what he was doing what he was doing because it wasnāt clicking in his brain.
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What I've been trying to do lately is only ask three times at the most, so I'll ask twice and then I'll say, in a nice but "I mean business" voice: "I have already asked you to do this two times. I'm going to ask one more time and then I'm going to start getting frustrated. Can you please [whatever]?" Something that I need to work on more, though, is making sure they're paying attention to me the first few times I ask, because I think if they're playing or watching tv or involved in something they probably honestly don't even hear me/register my words, and then they don't understand why I'm upset because it seems like it came out of nowhere.
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I heard something recently (maybe the unruffled podcast?) that said you should only say something once. Then, like @hypatia said, take their hand and guide them to do it. I do think they get in a habit of not having to listen till we yell. For us, it has definitely cut down on our frustration though it does take more time. Before that we were repeating ourselves 10 times for every single step of the day and getting super angry. Weāve been trying this new approach for about a week and our anger is down for sure though I donāt know if heās listening any better yet.
ETA: itās not meant to be a punishment though, itās more āyou arenāt listening so you must need my helpā
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@ShootingStar: this is true because I read once donāt say ādonāt runā because kids only hear run you should say āplease walkā and I find that works with kids and adults!
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@Hypatia: I love this idea and will definitely have to try it. Iāve definitely noticed with my girls that sometimes they wonāt do something because theyāre frustrated/mad/sad that Iām busy getting myself ready and not spending more time with them.
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Apparently 5 times a lot... my DS has started saying back to me, 'why do i have to tell you 5 times'. lol.
Some good tips on here that I will have to implement!
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Asking your child to do something multiple times makes an unspoken contract that when you ask the first time they can ignore. When I ask something I ensure that he is hearing me (a hearing specialist once told me that hearing is greatly impaired if you aren't able to see the person's eyes when you are speaking so I try to ensure I can see him) and then if he doesn't do it I either physically make him or I start counting. I have no patience for repeated requests.
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They will need as many reminders as you are willing to give them. Agree with @LBee: and@Hypatia: .
I would strive for one reminder as much as possible. I try to implement this in my 5th & 8th grade classrooms as well as with my kids.
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If my son doesn't do it on the first time I ask, I ask him what I he is having trouble understanding and what I can do to help him understand the ask.
That is enough to get him to repeat back to me what I asked of him so I know he is engaged and I also give him a time limit. Instead of asking him to put on his shoes, I give him a command.
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A lot of good advice here. I have one more. If you can use a natural consequence when they fail to follow through, all the better.
My 3 year old didn't put her shoes on for school, so I walked her out to the car in her socks and put her in her car seat. She went into preschool without shoes (the ground was wet too, really helped my point!). Yes, her teacher noticed, but she knew what we were doing. By then, my daughter was unhappy that she wasn't wearing shoes, so I told her she could put on her extra school shoes (they keep an entire extra outfit at school) and talked about how important it is to do every step of our morning routine on time, so we are prepared for the day.
She put her shoes on promptly every morning for 6 months after that!
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@LBee: omg my 4yo says that to me all the time. But heāll just ask me for something once (letās say a snack) and I wonāt be able to do it right away because Iām changing the baby. Then heāll say āwhy do I have to ask you a hundred times????ā in a very exasperated voice
@oskarsmommy: so to answer your question, apparently a hundred times. I have to ask him a hundred times.
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I also have to ask 100 times, or more often, ten times then I yell. So, I need to break this habit.
So for all of you doing the āask once then guide themā thing- what do you do when you have two kids? When we are trying to leave I have to get my own shoes and coat on, help the 3 year old, and I expect my 5 year old to get her own shoes and coat on. This is a crunch point in our day when I often end up yelling at everyone, so clearly I need to switch it up. I usually also have 5 different bags I need to carry out to the car as well so I get frustrated pretty quickly.
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@Foodnerd81: I have an almost two year old. During the training phase, I get myself ready, then get the toddler ready and put her in the car seat, bring out any bags I need, and finally focus on my DD. The toddler has to wait on us in the car, but I figure thatās a valuable lesson in patience, too, ha.
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@Foodnerd81: I just do it when I can. For example, say I'm putting DS2's shoes on when I ask DS1 to do his shoes and he hasn't done it by the time I finish with DS2. That's when I take him and say "you're having a hard time following directions, so let's get your shoes". So, it isn't always immediate, but I don't think that undermines the method.
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I have to say my DD is pretty good about it bc if I think really hard I'd say 3 times is the max that we ask in our house. And usually it doesn't even get to that. The times she doesn't is usually when she's playing and doesn't want to stop or if she's watching tv and doesn't want to stop.
Our DS is going to be our challenge, I can already tell..... LOL.. but so far he's not even 2 so we can't expect him to follow directions immediately...
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@oskarsmommy: DS is 3.5 so...approximately 1 million times. He gets so distracted in the middle of a routine or he'll interrupt me with his "mommy...mommy...mommy" thing which means he has a completely unrelated but urgent question
@Hypatia: This is really interesting, I'll have to give this tactic a try. How old is your DD?
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We do consequences. If she doesn't do it after a couple of asks, then we tell her she has to the count of three to do it or X happens. It works 90% of the time. I missed out on my weekly donuts this weekend because we said it was a consequence and I was so bitter having to follow through
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My DD is really good at finding things to do other than what she had been asked/told to do. Iāve started having her repeat it back to me (āA, itās time to put your shoes on now. What did I just ask you to do?ā) This eliminates her very favorite answer of āBut I didnāt hear you!ā and the runner-up of āBut I didnāt understand what you meant!ā and gets faster results. Iām going to try the tomato staking method as well, though.
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@Foodnerd81: When I was home on my 6-month maternity leave (unpaid, don't get jealous, haha) I always packed the car the night before. I even have a stroller that lets me load up the bottom basket and then fold it to put it in the trunk.
I keep a bunch of gallon ziploc bags with the basics (snacks, change of clothes, small toy, wipes, a diaper) labeled per kid stashed in the closet, my car, my diaper bag, and DH's diaper bag. This makes "packing up" decently easy.
I put a kid in the car first (usually the toddler) with a snack, book, and/or small toy. Then I get the other one ready and/or myself. My toddler just hangs out in the car for literally 10 minutes just chilling.... he's so NOT a chill person generally though but this happens every day so he doesn't fight it.
Right now I have a 3 and 1 year old so maybe this seems easy. Obvi the 1-year old is pretty compliant. But my 3-yr-old..... *deep breath* I've posted a ton of threads about him.
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@Foodnerd81: its like you are in my head - haha
Same - and I all always good for one or two days ok, 'ok, you need my help, I will help you' - then on that third day, I lose it - because I KNOW he can do it... I guess there is my answer - me.. maybe I am not being consistent with my approach..
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@LBee: this is so true about eye contact. Iāve started prefacing any request/comment that I think might not be followed by the preschooler with āI need to see your eyeballsā and once I have that contact it makes a huge difference.
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I have to repeat, repeat and get loud too creating a routine @gotkimchi: Aha Moment! Tonight, I made sure during pick up I gave instructions with LO looking at me like @LBee: said and voila! We were out the door so much faster. Funny thing is LO always says my name first to get my attention when he requests something. Typically I will turn to look at him or look up if I was on my phone :sad:. He knows thatās an effective trick. As a mom though I have to be better about not barking orders from across the room.
@Iced Tea: I had a no shoe morning yesterday!! LOās dad told him he was buying Spider-āMan shoes for him. Well, theyāre not here yet and every day LO asks to wear these damn shoes. He took off the shoes I put on him in protest so off to school we went with no shoes. LO was defiant until he had to walk on the āyuckyā gym daycare floors to get to his classroom and was more than happy to put his shoes on.
@PurplePeony: thank you for that one too! Last night LO kept turning on/ off stuff in my office and just wasnāt listening even with eye to eye instructions. I finally asked him to repeat and show me what he was allowed to touch and wasnāt. Hoping next time it should be better.
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@Foodnerd81: maybe try sitting them together by the front door and put shoes on together and help whoever needs help. But more directly when I have to help them for a couple/few days in a row I either have them both doing the same task, or I just focus on one kid and then back to the other after those few days.
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So many times!!! My boys are 2.5 and 5 and I feel like a broken record. Once I turn things into a competition or race, it helps!!
I teach grades 5,6,and 7 and itās not much better with that age group! š¤·āāļø
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I seriously feel like I repeat the same three or four things at least 100 times over the course of a few days. It drives me insane. I was literally just venting to my husband last night about how tired I am of saying the same damn thing over and over again.
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@bhbee: Oh yeah, eye contact is key! I start with her name, and she knows sheās supposed to respond by looking at me and saying āYes, mama?ā And THEN I give instructions. Ideally, anyway.
So an interaction might be some variation of this.
āJane?ā
*no response*
āJane, look at me.ā
*looks*
āPut your shoes on now, please.ā
āYes, mama.āIf she doesnāt respond after prompting, thatās when I get down on her level with my Mama Means Business Voice.
Same - and I all always good for one or two days ok, 'ok, you need my help, I will help you' - then on that third day, I lose it - because I KNOW he can do it... I guess there is my answer - me.. maybe I am not being consistent with my approach..
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