grapefruit / 4800 posts
@Mrsbells: Between Trumps tweetstorm this morning and him hiring Russia's #1 law firm to deny his business ties to Russia http://fortune.com/2017/01/11/donald-trumps-morgan-lewis-russia-award/
It's a hard choice between laughing and crying
coconut / 8472 posts
@Modern Daisy: As a republican, do you think the Comey stuff is just much ado about nothing then? Or do you take it at purely face value?
I'm honestly curious. I know my bad opinion of republican politicians and trump in particular colors my view of what's happening.
grapefruit / 4187 posts
@ShootingStar: I don't think any of us will really know why Comey was fired, just like we will never know the truth behind many other political maneuvers. I tune out the left wing media (so pretty much 95% of it) so I don't buy into this being about the Russian investigation. I do believe though that comey's handling of the Clinton email investigation was done in a horrendously poor manner and he should have been fired for that! Maybe he was just all around bad at his job? Maybe he pissed off the wrong person? Regardless, it doesn't surprise me to hear that a president would make hiring and firing decisions based on politics.
@Modern Daisy: You're right, I'm not sure we'll ever know exactly why. But I'll just never believe for a minute that at this late stage Trump would be motivated to do anything about an action that made Hillary look bad.
To me if it's not the Russia investigation, it's the "loyalty" question. I think Trump wanted Comey to be a yes man, and when he wasn't he got fired.
honeydew / 7504 posts
But didn't Trump and Sarah Huckabee both outright admit that Comey was fired because of the Russia investigation?
squash / 13199 posts
@Maysprout: yeah its sickening. the scary part isnt even what trump is doing but how easily people brush it off or justify it. thats what is truly terrifying.
@Mrsbells: Agree 100%. Completely gobsmacked by how Trump is someone that people find admirable. He expresses hatred for almost everyone.
@looch: I try to do some science communication and switch the convo to air pollution and how that affects people. Yet even air pollution consequences are deemed fake news. When people's news sources are Hannity and Tucker Carlson it's like their only reflex is to call fake news or change the convo to saying well Bill Nye is stupid.
@ShootingStar: I'm not saying I think the clintons and the trumps are friends.. but the Clintons did attend their wedding. So take their "hatred" towards each other with a grain of salt. Also a good exercise for someone in your shoes who is worried about a bias against Trump coloring your views might be to imagine Obama was the one who fired Comey and think about how you'd react in that scenario. Would it make you mad? Would you justify it? Or maybe would you accept the fact that we will never really know why these particular strings were pulled? I agree with your thought about him not being a "yes" man. Very likely!
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts
@Modern Daisy: your "imagine if Obama did this" idea is a good one. I've been getting so irritated with the news marching out people praising Comey when the same people were calling him out on the horrible timing of the Clinton stuff before the election. Let's face it-he is far from perfect and there are plenty of reasons he could have been fired in the past year (not saying any were good or bad reasons or he should have been fired, just that all sides have taken issue at some point). And I think they are further alienating people on the right who will point to that hypocrisy.
However, the timing is awful and incredibly suspicious. Fire him in January, fine. Days after requesting more resources for the Russia investigation? Not buying his excuses.
@Foodnerd81: that's fair! I agree the timing is strange. But firing him in Jan after spending months saying things like "lock her up!" was never going to happen, lol. You kind of have to go "all in" with my method of WWOD. Remember, the media treated him with kid gloves for 9 years so no one blinked when he instituted a travel ban similar to what Trump did. There was no negative press about it and no republican judges blocking it. We've been groomed to think Obama was an angel and Trump is the Devil. So you kind of have to stop listening and form your own opinion.
@Modern Daisy: Obama's was in response to a specific plot so not preemptive. It was also much, mich, much more limited - increased background checks for Iraqis and a hold on refugee processing for 6 months and prevented 10 countries from being allowed to use the visa waiver program (so they needed a visa).
As for the Obama or Hillary test that just makes it worse. I wasn't a Hillary fan, she shouldn't have used a private server and if Obama had fired Comey and then changed his story 10 times and then threatened him I just can't even fathom being like, yup, seems legit.
pear / 1558 posts
I think it's the timing that is what is so suspicious, not the actual firing.
@Modern Daisy: I sincerely appreciate your viewpoint & perspective. I also do try to use the exercise you suggest to reassess whether Obama had done the firing (or any other action/Ex. Order, etc), but I just can't reconcile the comparison when the two men are so fundamentally different. Their regular personal conduct is so very different. Everything Trump does is based in bullying, it appears to me, and that is the filter through which I observe everything he does or says, though I try to keep an open mind.
@Maysprout: well, lol we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on that. I'm thinking along the lines like a ban is a ban. And my point was actually about the media coverage of both events - I don't think anyone could argue that the media was equally hard on Obama. And that is only one tiny example!
@GoGoSnoGirl: So what you're saying is that the exercise doesn't work for you because you just hate Trump too much. Hey that's fine! I get it! If given the choice I would probably choose to have dinner with Obama even though I despise him. But just admit then that you might be biased. Maybe because of the constant Trump hate from almost every single news outlet? Just a thought, might not be true but thought I'd throw it out there.
I'm definitely not thinking that I will convert anyone on this thread to suddenly be on board with Trump I just came on to commend Mrs Sketchbook for having a open mind. I completely agree that the media should report more on the core of these issues instead of going off the deep end with conspiracy theories. I think it's at least partially thanks to the media going so far overboard that Trump won this election. It's ridiculous and republicans are tired of it. It pushes us further away from the middle which is counter intuitive.
@Modern Daisy: I appreciate your viewpoint as well. None of us are going to change anyone's minds, here or otherwise. But I think we all need to see where the other side is coming from or we'll just get more and more divided.
As for the hatred between them, I think they were friendly at one point but after the type of campaigns that were run it's long over. I think it's very vitriolic between them now.
@Modern Daisy: Please know that I am not attacking you or your position. I, too, would love to hear from you as a Trump supporter about your take on what he is saying & doing.
As for your question about the "WWOD" exercise, I didn't say that I hate Trump too much to even do the exercise. I have trouble inserting him into a "compare a president mental calculator" because he's so different from EVERY other president I can recall--and not in a good way. It isn't partisan for me. I'm an Independent & voted 3rd party (which I'm sure plenty of people would love to jump on me for). I listen to NPR & BBC and White House communications directly in order to try to get less biased information. To me, his "leadership" style is bullying, not leading, & the things he, himself, says makes me distrust him (even more than I distrust the average politician). I'd love some positive things to come out of his presidency, but so far he doesn't seem to be reigning in the corporate influence on government like he said he would on the campaign trail, for example. It looks like he instead doubled down on that & brought in all his billionaire buddies to join the fun! That's out there for all to see. So, with several intelligence agencies having already proven Russian meddling in the election, it just wouldn't surprise me if there is more to the story where Trump & associates are also buddying up with Russians for political &/or financial gains for both. I do agree, though, that this is distracting from a lot of other important issues that need attention, but I don't believe it is a wild goose chase or a conspiracy theory.
hostess / papaya / 10219 posts
@GoGoSnoGirl: agree completely. I don't dislike Trump because the media tells me to, LOL. I dislike his own tweets, the speaches he has given at rallies, the policy decisions he has so far made. I don't listen to pundits on cable news.
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@Modern Daisy: I actually don't have an open mind on Trump. I think his policies are wrongheaded and go against everything we know about science, foreign policy, poverty, education, the environment...etc. I just think I would rather spend time talking about the issues than talking about who is benefitting from his short sightedness. Who really cares if it is Big Oil or Russia that is getting the benefits? All I care about is the harm that is being caused by his policies, to children, the environment, public servants, etc. I absolutely despite "whatabout" statements no matter who makes them. On both sides. And couldn't care less about who is portrayed how by the media. All of that (including WWOD) falls under the category of "palace intrigue" and catfighting as far as I am concerned. Just the issues please.
I can say this because I didn't vote for Obama either term. I simply don't care who said what about who and I don't feel the need to defend an "ism" or a party, etc.
@looch: my husband used to be a hardcore libertarian so I was forced for many years to try to understand him. I think motivation for self is part of it, but the ideological perspective is one that freedom is inherently valuable. Like, more valuable than the risk of making mistakes, death, etc. It is why you see gun rights activists say that no amount of gun deaths would change their opinion about gun rights. Because they're not motivated by outcome but by ideology. I do actually buy solar credits for my house and I've contemplated writing a Facebook status that's something like "solar credits... support your local organic farmers!". Because that's basically what it is.
I started detaching from the idea of freedom in the past two years. I largely believe that freedom is a fiction. I think just the ecosystem in general is proof that we are all interdependent. So I don't attach special significance to the idea of "personal freedom," at least not those that harm others.
grapefruit / 4321 posts
@Modern Daisy: Do you truly believe the majority of those opposed to Trump dislike him because of the way The Media portrays him? And if you tune out as you say "the liberal media" and claim that's "95% of it" does that leave you with Fox News? Anyone paying any attention at all knows Fox News is presenting the most biased reporting out there. I'm a registered republican who never supported Obama and voted in the 2016 Republican primaries. But, I'm also not an asshole, so I voted for Clinton in the general election when Trump was my only other viable option. I didn't do so because the media told me to, but because Trump is an unqualified, childish, selfish, stupid piece of crap. He doesn't believe in science (climate change), he has no respect for ethics parameters (nepotism, conflicts of interest), he has the maturity of my 4 year old (see: twitter), he picked a white supremacist as a top advisor, and he thinks sexual assault is a joke (yes, yes, I know you somehow think Bill Clinton's consensual extramarital sex is more offensive then sexual assault). Given all these facts, of course 95% of the media presents him as a bad guy, HE'S A BAD GUY.
pomegranate / 3314 posts
@Truth Bombs: This is incredible. A million clapping emojis to you.
pomelo / 5500 posts
@Truth Bombs: I could kiss you for this.
nectarine / 2400 posts
@Truth Bombs: I think you mean bad hombre
@gotkimchi: My sincere apologies, I stand corrected!
@Truth Bombs: mic drop
You're my hero.
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