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@Ms.Badger: I was vaccinated for it and it's 20 minutes from me here in Utah but there is nothing I can do. My baby can't have certain vaccinations, some due to age and some due to an autoimmune disease. But I feel fully confident that it's treatable and she would be ok if she got it.
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@anonysquire: Have you seen kids with cancer and kids on immuno-suppressants get measles? I haven't, but I'm sure the course was not smooth. Any virus can kill immune compromised kids and as a society we should do our part to protect them
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@Ms.Badger: I'm sorry for the confusion -- see my response to Mr. Bee -- I 100 percent believe in the importance of medical exemptions! I work in a medical field (though not as a health care worker) so I definitely understand the necessity. It didn't even occur to me that anyone would be against medical exemptions
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@Ms.Badger: And I agree with that. But again my baby can't get some vaccinations, so should I endanger her and possibly kill her to protect other kids? I'm sorry if I sound horrible but that's not going to happen.
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@anonysquire: No, of course if there's a medical reason to not vaccinate your child you should not do it. IMO, that is a reason to advocate for vaccinations, as it will lessen the chance that your child with health challenges gets vaccine-preventable illnesses. I feel that if people would understand the gravity of not vaccinating their children on the most vulnerable people in the population, many would make the compassionate choice to vaccinate.
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@anonysquire: Your baby not being able to be vaccinated is the reason to maintain strong herd immunity (ie for all healthy individuals to be vaccinated)! I've been lucky enough not to have practiced in any areas experiencing a measles outbreak. But I am all for preventing the resurgence of vaccine-preventable diseases (tetanus, pertussis, rubella and on and on...).
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@Ms.Badger: I whole heartedly agree. Over 2.5 million people died every year from the measles before the 1980s when vaccination became routine. I would venture to say a lot of people aren't scared of the measles thanks to the widespread vaccination- fortunately most of us haven't witnessed the horrific effects the measles can have first hand. But the fact remains we need to make sure we don't lose sight of protecting our most vulnerable. I worked for three summers at a camp for children with severe and specialized medical needs. The daily precautions they have to take to not get a COLD was heartbreaking... They shouldn't have to worry about preventing easily vaccinated, more serious illnesses as well.
So yes, i agree with everything you posted
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@Ms.Badger: I guess it still doesn't bug me. I've had too many years of people trying to tell me how to live my life and now how to raise.my baby. So I stay out of people's lives. Yes it's their choice, and yes their choice could affect my baby. But I have faith that I could treat most things vaccines "claim" to treat and I have faith in most doctors. If my child or I get a disease and it doesn't end well, I believe that was supposed to happen and it would happen whether oor not we are fully vaccinated. It's life. People die in dumber ways. All I can do is protect my baby and hope that people have enough sense to stay around us when they are sick. Which ironically enough, my sister when she found out Zuma can't get all vaccines told us to stay away from her family. She's since loosened up and her child has given Zuma rotavirus and roseola. So.... ya.....
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Before LO I used to wonder about selective vaccination but several months ago I came across someone at my neurologist's office who was dying of chronic encephalitis as a result of childhood measles. That freaked me out and convinced me to make sure LO gets every vaccine. It's not okay for him to get a vaccine-preventable disease or to give one to someone else if there is anything we can do about it.
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@anonysquire: Coming from an entirely different outlook, I admire, but do not share, your philosophical outlook when it comes to the lives of my or anyone's children.
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this made me so sad:
"I don't know how many Make-a-Wish Foundation kids were (at Disneyland)," Omer said in reference to the foundation that grants wishes to children with life-threatening illnesses. "But parents of kids with all sorts of illnesses like to give them an opportunity to have fun like other kids. ... And they depend on herd immunity."
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@mrs. bird: yikes, that's a real punch in the gut
what an awful situation this is.
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@mrs. bird:
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@anonysquire: I honestly do not understand. Wouldn't you want others vax to protect Zuma? Vaccinations don't "claim" to work. They eradicate dangerous diseases when used by enough people. Measles probably wouldn't kill you personally but it's effects can be terrible and it's extremely dangerous and potentially fatal in the young and medically fragile and the article states that it is so contagious that 90% of the non-immune who are exposed will contract it.
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@Mrs Green Grass: It's clear that I'm the only one who shares my views here. I said what I wanted to say
If you don't agree, head over to GOMI and take it up there. My baby is safe and happy.
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A disease doesn't have to be the worst most deadly disease for it to be worth preventing. I regularly try to prevent myself from getting colds!
I do think there is some fear mongering with measles. But I think that is because people are motivated by fear. People don't respond to reason as well.
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Also, there are no treatments for measles (or mumps, rubella, or many of the other vaccine preventable illnesses, only the symptoms can be managed
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@Charm54: thank you for helping at one of these camps, I know they mean the world to those kids who have had very difficult lives
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There are very few people who are legitimately in grave danger from vaccines. Of course those people should not be expected to vaccinate their children but I agree it's the herd that will also protect those children. Fear mongering isn't what this is about. It's about looking at what's happening and realizing its actually escalating, it's like global warming. This isn't fear mongering for the sake of fear mongering. This is an actual health concern for society as a whole. It's also not about GOMI BS or hating on anyone. There are exceptions to every rule but those exceptions should be medically relevant, not based on someone's anecdotal paranoia about vaccines.
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I'll just ETA and delete my whole post. I think anti-vaxxing is uneducated and ignorant, and I'll leave it at that (with the exception of a medical reason that prevents a child from being vaccinated.)
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@MrsMccarthy: Global warming??? (rolling eyes)
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@PrincessBaby: Come on now, no need to slap a bee!
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@anonysquire: similar to how Global warming is a phenomenon that we can see unfolding before our eyes we can also see the effects of not vaccinating. I support someone who does this if they have a child like yours who is medically and legitimately in danger from vaccines but I do not support it as a "personal" choice because it can and has effected others. I do not roll my eyes at your right to protect your child from legitimate medical concerns that you have claimed prevent her from being vaccinated so please do not roll your eyes at legitimate concerns myself or others might have for our children if people make this choice willy nilly. As I said this isn't about fear mongering or trying to hate on people, it's about discussing the facts. If anything I have come in contact with fear mongering on the side of anti-vax more often.
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@mrbee: I said non-vaxxer. And since there doesn't really to seem to be too many of those here with the exception of someone with medical reason (as I stated), I'm more or less talking about the ones that I come into contact with on a daily basis. This isn't something that I just read about on the internet, or on Hellobee, or the news. It's a growing trend that I stare in the face every single day. And it is infuriating and definitely a wake up call that this is happening in real life. It's not just some randos on Hellobee or the internet.
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@PrincessBaby: oh there's several non-vaxxers. They just don't feel the need to broadcast that especially on a mostly one sided forum.
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@mrbee: I edited my comment for your sake, but this is a thread about a really heated topic. Fueled by a serious recent outbreak...Hope for the best but plan for the worst in this thread!
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@PrincessBaby: was referencing your comment about bitch slap... slap a b = slap a bee.
Anyway I disagree with non vaxxing aside for medical exemptions, but I don't think it helps encourage thoughtful discussion if,.. actually never mind, I see you changed your post.
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@MrsMccarthy: it made perfect sense the first time you said it. I think it's a good analogy.
I don't think every thread about a hot issue needs to get crazy! Come on ladies (and gent), let's try... The discussion is worthwhile, but when it devolves to yelling the message gets lost.
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@Mrs Green Grass: To @where'sC's point, it almost doesn't do any good to express honest feelings, fears, and opinions here about this. Anti Vaxxers infuriate me, but it's easier to just stick to topics like what color fabric you ordered for your PBK nursery rocker when on here.
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I've been very hesitant to get involved here but I thought maybe I could bring something to the table here and I am struggling with this topic right now. I am not at all anti-vaccination, however I also don't want to be blind to the fact that vaccination is a complex topic. I am vaccinating my son but have chosen to do so on a modified schedule determined by me and my pediatrician (mostly according to her research/practice). My son is 21 months and has not received the MMR vaccine yet. Based on conversation with my pediatrician, we had decided to delay it until age 2. The main reason being that our doctor feels that it is beneficial to hold off on that particular shot until the child's verbal skills are more developed. This is strictly based on her own personal experience with patients and her own research. I am reconsidering waiting any longer now because I do live in California. I'm hesitant to wait a few more months with the outbreak but I also want to listen to my doctor and after speaking with her today, she thinks it is not medically urgent that we do the shot now, but is totally supportive if we want to do it now. I still don't know exactly what I want to do.
I guess what I really want to get at is unless we are a doctor or a medical researcher, we CANNOT know for ourselves all there is to know about vaccines. We can read studies to educate ourselves and we can talk to doctors, but it is not possible for me to really know all(!) the details and science myself. Therefore I must trust the medical establishment and my doctor. Again, I am not anti-vax. I believe that vaccinations have done amazing good for the world, but I also know that doctors and medical researchers are not perfect. I work in academic publishing (specifically peer review) for a large publisher of academic journals and I work with doctors and researchers every day who are evaluating studies and publishing work. They are motivated by MANY different factors and I know first hand that all published science is not good science. I most certainly believe that science does, in the long term, head the right direction. But doctors and researchers don't get everything right. It drives my crazy that I can't know for myself, but that's the reality and I don't know why more people/parents don't acknowledge that in regards to vaccines. I can read tons of statistics and the abstracts of studies, but I still can't know truly for myself because science is not perfect. Maybe I just feel this way because I work so closely with medical research and I see how it can easily be manipulated, but I think it's important to keep in mind. We don't know everything about vaccines and while I do think they are of huge importance in keeping our society safe and obviously most are effective, we can't be totally certain about the total impact they have on our health and that is what makes it challenging.
I know this was a bit all over the place so apologies!
I just wanted to offer up some complexity to the issue. And I really would like to avoid any arguments. Please respect that i am speaking closely with a doctor to determine what is best for my family and am doing so in the best way I know possible. Much
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@Dagny: I appreciate your thinking out loud
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@PrincessBaby: I think if we speak respectfully to each other, threads like these can be productive and useful.
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@Dagny: certainly a perspective to be considered and I really respect how you have gone about representing it. It's also important to keep in mind that not all doctors are created equal. If you trust yours that's wonderful but many people seek a second opinion from someone who is more qualified in a specialized area. Again as I have said, correlation does not equal causation so your doctors opinion based on her very narrow experience is really just that, her opinion. Not all science is perfect but if you weigh both sides there is just way more science in support of vaccines than against. I have also heard of OBs who believe that heartrate is a factor in the sex of a baby and so on. There are a ton of medical professionals out there who have their own opinions about medicine. I understand that it's hard when someone in the profession makes that suggestion and I am happy to see that she is only delaying the vaccine and not suggesting you avoid it all together but I'm not sure that I personally would find her argument for it at all compelling given the facts supporting the schedule. That said modifying the schedule is less concerning to me than completely ignoring it baring a legitimate medical reason.
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@mrbee: I honestly don't have a lot of respect for anti vaxxers. Sorry if that came out in my post. That's why I deleted just about everything. I feel way too strongly about this topic to be a part of this, so that's why I bowed out. I'll just revert back to discussing nursery paint and what font to get on my next Anywhere Chair purchase.
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@anonysquire: vaccines don't claim to treat. They prevent.
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@PrincessBaby: you're right that some topics require respect and civility, and others don't as much. Our community guidelines do call for civility regardless of topic though.... so if that's not possible, then it sounds like your decision may be for the best.
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@mrbee: I already deleted the post, sooooo....I guess I'm just wondering what else you want me to do here?
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@PrincessBaby: don't want anything, was just responding to your comment - and agreeing on the importance of civility!
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@mrbee: Perfect! Thanks!
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@Dagny: our pediatrician waits until 2 for MMR also.
what an awful situation this is.
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