Hellobee Boards

@Ms.Badger: Yes! I think it's great (and it's a paid leave, too, until they determine if you have been immunized/have the blood test). I used to work there and my best friend still does, so she's been giving me the scoop about how DLR has been handling everything.

@Mrs. Jacks: Ahhh, got it! I was confused haha. But yes, I agree. And man, it is like pulling teeth getting my dad to get his damn flu shot, but given his health history my mom stays on top of it.

@Kemma: thank you for chiming in! I was just thinking about the "well it's not that bad" argument (especially since you hear that about the flu a lot. Even though I think having the flu is miserable and is not just a bad cold.)

I think it had something to do with how we watch the news. Everything has to be OMGdisaster! for us to pay attention to. So some people are going to go "eh. Measles. It's not Ebola." And assume it's fine to get.

But that's not looking at the bigger picture. What about lost wages and labor productivity from parents who have to spend time staying home with sick kids? Increased wait times at doctors' offices? Higher insurance costs because we are then paying to treat the illness? Endangering the immunocompromised? And of course, the actual pain and suffering of the child? Those are all really important issues outside of just "well it *probably* won't cause permanent damage."

Those things aren't as sexy to people though, so they don't capture attention.

@raintreebee: lolz. Here is a little pool of mercury, please just stick your hand right in there, it will soak into your skin and cure EVERYTHING that ails you. Because you'll be dead.

I'm not suggesting that the majority of parents who choose not to vaccinate take that stance without a lot of thought but personally I find it to be a rather cavalier attitude when it's generally the child that's going to end up with the short end of the stick if they get sick. Sure it's not nice for a parent to watch their child go through illness but it must be so.much.worse to be the child with measles.

@raintreebee: ask Marie Curie about the "natural" things she worked with like uranium.

@Kemma: I also had measles - I was 2.

My mom said it wasn't horrible, just typical measles, but obviously I don't remember anything from the experience. My mom said she wasn't really worried about it because measles was so typical during childhood in her generation so she didn't think that me having it was very noteworthy so there is barely a note in my baby book about it. (At least there IS a note unlike my poor children who have baby books that don't have anything in them... )

I've always wondered where I got it though because my mom doesn't recall it being an outbreak or anything in our area at the same time and I had been vaccinated for it.

@Mrs. High Heels: Thanks for that link! I'm not an OC bee, but I am in San Diego and my parents live in fullerton - so we are there a lot. To make things more complicated, we bought disneyland passes on December 14th .... Days before the outbreak started there. Since then, there are reports all over the place. I have a two year old (who is up to date) and expecting #2 in May. This is hitting way too close for comfort!!

I live in Oregon, which has a very high number of unvaccinated children. We choose to vaccinate, but we didn't do it blindly. We talked with our MD, and chose a schedule that works for us. Our very crunchy doc recommends the MMR at 1 since it's an issue in our area. We are currently waiting for our appointment. Am I scared? Kind of ... I do think measles is treatable, and I'm hopeful my LO won't be exposed before she has a chance to receive the vaccine.

I guess all of this scares me, but I think that's the point. Where I get skeptical is when I'm looking at facts and numbers. The CDC says they need 80% of people to be vaccinated for the disease to be at bay (herd immunity), but over 90% of people are vaccinated, and it's still a problem? And, the number of people affected at this point is such a tiny percentage of the population ... Is this really an outbreak (anymore than we've had in history)? Could this just be a chance to get the vaccine agenda some attention?

These are more rhetorical questions, as I do believe in vaccines, but I can't help but feel like there are lots of questions to ask. I think following an agenda blindly (either way) is a disservice to your child. Educate yourself and make decisions that are right for your family.

Eta: Being in a city full of crunchy mamas, I have many friends who don't vaccinate. These women are all very smart, loving, and made a hard choice based on different reasons. My point is that I don't think the stereotype of "idiots denying vaccines" is a thing. I am proud to be friends with them (which has nothing to do with vax/not vax), and I appreciate their perspective.

@littlejoy: I think what you said is right...there are areas where the rate of those vaccinated has dropped well below a critical threshold and those are particularly at risk. And though I don't have the statistics at hand, a pp did post them. Thankfully, there is no way this "outbreak" could reach pre-vaccine numbers (in the millions, with hundreds of serious complications and deaths). I don't believe any conspiracy that says the pro-vaccine community is just trying to get their talking points in. And I am REALLY glad that smallpox has been vaccinated out of existence (though it lives on in some labs)...I would love nothing more than NOT to be talking about measles right now.

@Mae: That's a good analogy. Though, I think drunk drivers are assholes with mental problems, and I wouldn't say that about anti-vax people. I think fear drives a lot of it. I know that I get very nervous before any vaccine my LO gets. What if she reacts!? What if her little body can't clear the toxins (yes, vaccines are full of some crazy stuff)?

I think it's more than just black and white, and I'm happy more people are thinking critically about the things we're putting in our kid's bodies. It's nice that we are starting to see more natural leaning doctors come forward in support of vaccines, but also delivering true information and guiding a slower schedule.

In regards to the MMR, we chose to do if for the same reasons we vaccinated for polio: until it's gone, I feel like it's my place as a citizen of the world to do my part in eradicating it. And, my child is very healthy. It sucks she has to go through it, but we'll do it to protect the critical child who is most at risk.

How many of us adults have had titers drawn? Probably not many. I'm guessing adults have a big part in this outbreak.

@littlejoy: I imagine you are right that a lot of it has to do with adults who were immunized as a child and that has worn off.

This issue is difficult for me to talk about rationally in a lot of ways, but this is something that I always wonder. I understand that vaccines provide for the greater good in hopefully eradicating these diseases. But, for the vast majority of people who are vaccinated, do outbreaks like this pose that much of a threat?

As for the thought that people who question vaccines are idiots, something always comes to mind for me. People are incredibly concerned with what we put into our body. People are making sure to eat organic, and non-gmo, and to use natural baby products, and chemical free diapers, and not to smoke, and not to eat processed foods. But, as soon as someone wants to question or think about what they could also be putting into their body (or their tiny baby's body) with a vaccine they are labeled as an idiot. I just don't think that those two things line up (and I understand the difference being that what you eat only effects you and that vaccines have a greater good effect).

@littlejoy: YES to your statement about adults being a large part of this outbreak. Honestly, I do believe vaccines work to inmunize but for a short period of time - I don't think that they can confer lifelong immunity. But the only vaccine we really hear about adults being encouraged to get is the Tdap (outside of the flu vaccine, obviously). I have no doubt a large number of the adult population is walking around without immunity. I personally know I do not have immunity to rubella but only because my midwife drew a titer during my last pregnancy. And I was vaccinated as a child and, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, still got measles. I want to know, if herd immunity is such a big deal, why aren't more adults encouraged to have titers drawn? The number of children not being vaccinated - even in states with the highest number of exemptions - is still low enough that herd immunity should not be affected. So there is more to this issue.

That's another unfortunate aspect of vaccination vs. natural immunity from infection - vaccination requires multiple boosters whereas having the disease gives lifelong immunity and also naturally provides immunity in the early months to a newborn via breastfeeding.

I really feel for both sides of this debate. No one, and I do mean no one, wants to see a child suffer or die with a disease from a vaccine preventable disease OR with an injury because of a vaccine. Both sides are highly motivated by fear and it's hard for anyone to see the other side because both sides are right.

@bpcmarj: Toxicity is funny.......it's the adage "it's the dose that makes the poison". So i consider the whole "omg vaccines are full of toxins!" part to be fear mongering and lack of education, too, and lack of understanding for chemical elements and compounds.

Off topic a bit, I think science can be very scary for many because it's so complicated, and i think that's where a lot of the conspiracy theories come from.

Oh this totally reminds me. I was listening to the radio and they were discussing how science and chemistry (atoms, protons, organic chem) is the #1 area parents struggle to help their kids out with their homework. Breeding ground for misconceptions

When I first had my daughter, a lady I met at a baby play group added me to a local mom's Facebook group. I live in a pretty "crunchy" area and I could quickly tell that many of the individuals in the group were very vocal about their anti-vaccination stance. Honestly, it made me nervous attending library story groups or play groups, knowing that so many of these children were not being vaccinated.

I ended up hiding the group's posts because they were driving me crazy. Every few days, someone would post an article about the horrible ingredients in vaccines. For example, "vaccines contain aluminum" - yes, they do; but it's a natural element found in abundance on the Earth - and the amount in vaccines is the same amount in 33 OZ of infant formula (https://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/Vaccineingredients.pdf).

Anyways. This topic gets me rage-y because all of modern science points to the fact that vaccines WORK and are, for the general population, a SAFER alternative to remaining NOT vaccinated. Are they 100%, completely risk-free? No - but then again, very, very few things in life are.

My husband is a dosimetrist and constantly sees children who are suffering from cancer. These kids are going through so much and their immune systems are completely destroyed. Measles may not kill you or your child, but it could kill one of these kids.

@littlejoy: I would love the link to that blog.

@MrsSCB: I was honestly thinking the same thing. Little funny anecdote: I was at Chipotle a couple months ago and there was a lady in front of me in line who asked the guy behind the counter if their chips are non-GMO. The kid looked super confused, asked a manager, to which the manager said, "No, corn isn't GMO." The kid looks back at the lady and repeats that, telling her that corn isn't GMO. The lady just nods and smiles and orders some chips. It took everything I had not to laugh. If you're going to be against something, do some damn research. I mean, I don't know about their chips, but I DO know that something like 90% of American grown corn is GMO.

@loveisstrange: Ha, exactly! "GMO" is just the latest scare word. I get so annoyed sometimes that I specifically choose not to buy things that say, "Non-GMO!!11!" on the packaging because I feel like they're just preying on people's misguided fears.

@littlejoy: are there reputable studies showing that ingested AL and injected AL have vastly differing effects on the body? I haven't been able to find any such studies. All studies I have read seem to indicate that the amount of AL found in vaccines are considered to be safe.

I agree that vaccines aren't 100% , completely safe - like I wrote in my original post, vaccines are a safer alternative , for the vast majority of the general population, than remaining unvaccinated. Very, very few things in life are 100% risk free. I support necessary medical exemptions