Since being stuck at home together for 9 months and counting, I've noticed that my husband is an epic micromanager, especially when it comes to our daughter. He constantly nags her during school (we're virtual at home, 2nd grade) - how to sit, where to sit, what to do/not to do, pay attention, repeating the teacher's instructions, it's nonstop. Our daughter is a good student, she loves school, even virtually, and she's very diligent about being in class and answering questions and participating, but she has some attention issues so she fidgets a lot. I've told her (and him) to use fidget toys, to change up her environment, etc. and I've tested her to make sure she is paying attention and I have no doubt that she is, but whenever I'm in my office working, I hear him still constantly nagging her and she's getting fed up and yelling at him so they're constantly arguing. He does the same thing during meals, while she's getting ready in the morning, during her taekwondo classes, etc. When I try to talk to him about it, he gets pissed at me and says I just want everything to be my way. At this point I've literally resorted to teaching my 7 year old daughter to diffuse arguments by explaining to him why she might be building a pillow fort during class, calm herself down instead of yelling back, etc. Important skills for her to learn, but mostly coming because her father is completely unresponsive to feedback. Any ideas on what else I can try with him? I've told him before that he's damaging their relationship, and he seems to get it, because she only fights with him, never with me, but does nothing about it and gets mad every time I dare say something.
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@Mrs. Carrot: do you think he’s depressed? My husband has anxiety issues and maybe depression but it came to a head during Covid and since being medicated things like this have resolved
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@gotkimchi: I'm not sure about depression, not much has changed in his habits otherwise, but he does have a lot of unresolved psychological issues that predate Covid (low self esteem, poor conflict management skills, low EQ) and he refuses to get help for them so I have no doubt that's at play here. They've affected our marriage in big ways and we've done many rounds over many years now about him needing help but he flat-out refuses so I've been working around as much as I can.
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@Mrs. Carrot: I'm sorry! It sounds like you are doing the best you can, and I'm sure your DD is learning some good conflict management skills, but it's too bad that your DH is so resistant to changing his behavior that it's falling on a little kid. My DH is also very sensitive to any feedback or perceived criticism, so I can commiserate. How does it go when you talk about it after the fact, when everyone is calm, like maybe after DD is asleep? My DH is somewhat more open to communication if I don't do it in the moment. It took me a long time to both adjust my own delivery in a way that he would be more open to (being super careful about my own tone and wording so that he didn't perceive it as being condescending, even when that wasn't the intention) and also being able to tolerate him huffing off or getting upset and staying firm with continuing to discuss it. Earlier in our relationship, I would just get upset and frustrated and bail, but I've learned to try to stay with it and continue to engage him if possible. We also went to marriage counseling for awhile and I think that helped us both with our communication skills. Some other thoughts: What about starting the conversation by presuming good intentions - you know he is just trying to make sure she does well in school, etc because he's a good dad and wants the best for her? Also, I have also tried saying something like, just humor me. Try it like this and see how it goes. (also, omg, speaking of low EQ skills - the other day my DS (7yo) asked me to tell him a true story from my life and DH was like, you should tell him about the time you were in that horrible car accident. I was like, WTF? How is that a good idea?!)
ETA: one more thought - is your DH supposed to be working while DD is in remote learning? I'm trying to think about how to address this in a way that either gives him some kind of other activity to do where he can give her more space or addresses it from the perspective of how it would benefit him to give her more space. -
Is it possible to have the conversation in a way that leads him to the conclusion? Bring the horse to water, so to speak. Like, asking him questions on why she got mad, then ask him to explain why she should or shouldn't be doing the thing that he was telling her to modify. Or would he still get huffy at that because you're questioning him?
I'm the micro-manage-y parent. My DH has done a good job at framing those situations for me. He helps me understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. It also helps him understand what I'm thinking. Basically, sometimes I've thought of a consequence that he hasn't, so he doesn't understand I'm doing X because of Y. And sometimes (ok, a lot of the time) I'm only doing X because I think that's the best way to do it.
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@mrs. carrot: This is probably completely off base, but I was just reading yesterday about adults being diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum (as adult, and high functioning) and it explaining a lot of their behavior and challenges. (also, I'm a teacher for kids with autism). Is your DH also very rigid with rules or does he seem unaware of how his behavior impacts others when the other person's response is nonverbal (like body language, tone of voice, etc)? I am remembering your post about gifts and how he buys really expensive gifts even when you have explicitly told him not to and trying to link it to his behavior with your DD.
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@Chuckles: Thanks, this is all super helpful! I do try to raise things with him when it's calmer/past the point of the actual conflict and that usually does help. This in particular has been an issue I've raised with him regularly and it just doesn't change much, which is the frustrating part.. I do think he has good intentions, no question there. I think he's trying to save our daughter from failure (being called out by the teacher, doing something wrong, etc.) and this is how he protects her, in his opinion, but as a result, they fight and she doesn't actually learn anything by actually failing, which sometimes does have to happen. Case in point, she was sitting with me this afternoon and fidgeting with LEGOs and ended up getting involved into some kind of building project and missed an instruction. I pointed it out to her (and the teacher told her she wasn't on the right prompt) and she immediately recognized that she went beyond just fidgeting. He tries to prevent all that from happening, which isn't serving either of them.
And yes, he is working during all this but his work is background (he's setting up conference calls, managing IT issues, that kind of stuff) so he's paying closer attention because he's not actively "on."
And your comment on the spectrum is not off-base at all. When we did marriage counseling, the therapist actually told me (separately) that she thinks he is, and when I did my own therapy, my therapist suggested it to me based on my descriptions of his behavior. He definitely has very limited awareness of body language (though he criticizes me for my "tone" all the time whenever he perceives me being snarky or frustrated) and nonverbals and he really doesn't pick up on much with our daughter (though he's receptive when I talk to him about something I'm observing about her). But again, he won't talk to anyone about anything so I don't know if anyone has ever said this to him (and I never would because he'd lash out that I'm trying to label him and find something wrong with him) so we just keep on navigating it day to day.
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@smuckers: He would definitely get mad if I tried to do that with him. This is what I basically do with our daughter, to get her to make connections, so he'll lash out at me that I'm treating him like a child. He does do OK with very explicit "you did X, it's causing Y" feedback but only if it's presented in a certain way so that's usually my approach but on this particular issue he seems to not be changing his approach despite multiple conversations.
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So interesting that he might be on the spectrum. I'm now thinking about how people on the spectrum often respond well to rules and patterns. And it sounds like your DH might be like that since you said that he responds well to X caused Y. Let me think about how you might capitalize on that
And my DH also gets super mad if he feels like I'm treating him like a kid (and sometimes I do find myself talking like that because he is *acting like a child*). Also, in case you're interested, I wanted to recommend the book The Journal of Best Practices, by David Finch. It's written by a man who was diagnosed as having autism as an adult and how it helped him improve his marriage.
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@Chuckles: I would love any suggestions, thank you! This is exactly why I'd love for him to talk to someone - I feel like he could learn so much about himself! But no matter which way I've talked to him about it (and I've tried it all, I think) and others have (he actually went to see my therapist a couple times while I was in counseling), he keeps saying "it's too hard" and won't do it. I'll definitely check out the book, thank you!
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@Mrs. Carrot: Also, the book is funny
I heard him talk on NPR a number of years ago when it came out. He said that he started writing down all the rules he was learning about how to be a good husband. There was a time when his wife was singing along to a song on the radio, but he didn't like the song, so he turned off the radio. And she had to explain to him why it was rude. He genuinely had no idea and didn't notice her reaction when he did it.
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@Chuckles: Hah, good to know, I'm excited to read it! Interestingly DH is the opposite in some cases - he can be so attentive in some ways (like he'd never turn off a radio but would go above and beyond to actually find a song I like) and completely clueless in other ways (like these interactions, the gifts, and like not understanding why me telling him that when he says "it's hard" to go to therapy it makes me feel like our marriage/kid are not worth doing something hard for).
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I tend towards the micromanagy, and what helps me is not being in the same room while my second grader is doing online learning.
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@mdf106: I try to have her be with me as much as possible but my job is very "on" (conference calls, check-ins, etc.) so there are periods where he has to be around.
May I ask what causes you to be micromanagey? Is there a particular concern or motivation that drives that for you? I keep analyzing where this might be coming from so that I can approach the topic from that angle and hopefully help it resonate for him.
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@Mrs. Carrot: I can sometimes be micromananagey. I find that when other things in my life feel out of control I get hyperfocused on tiny things that don't matter but that I want to have in my control. Are there any other tasks that you could give him or have him take on that he could focus on instead (and also might not impact his relationship with your daughter)?
And my DH also gets super mad if he feels like I'm treating him like a kid (and sometimes I do find myself talking like that because he is *acting like a child*). Also, in case you're interested, I wanted to recommend the book The Journal of Best Practices, by David Finch. It's written by a man who was diagnosed as having autism as an adult and how it helped him improve his marriage.
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