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Thank you

I read this article the other day. I wanted to send it to my entire extended family, but of course I refrained. But great article!

I'm an atheist, but the article really rubbed me the wrong way. This journalist has a major problem confusing correlation with causation.

@Mrs. Tiger: I would throw a fit if we "had" to declare a religion before a nurse would take my child into surgery! Wtf!

@mrsjazz: Same thing on sending to family. But if they ask about morals I might! Thanks for sharing!

@twodoghouse: @mrsjazz: Lol same here. Actually I'm pretty sure we would be shunned by a few family members...

@mrsjazz: That makes it more appalling. Atheists can no more take credit for successful secular societies than they can unsuccessful societies (the state atheism of Maoist China, the Soviet Union and North Korea come to mind). I guess you can make a very basic point that functioning secular societies prove that atheism won't necessarily jettison a country into ruin, but he seems to be going to great lengths to overstate its effects. Most of the things he attributes to atheism are only corollary and are better explained by wealth, education, or IQ. Twice as many atheists have PhD.s compared to the average American, and atheists are a fair bit more wealthy. http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise-demographics/

I enjoyed reading this article, so thanks for sharing. Though truthfully this isn't something I've ever worried about as the most caring, empathetic people I've encountered have been atheist/agnostic.

@mrsjazz: Oh jesus, I could go on. I live in a historically black neighborhood where the existing population was forced out to build a hospital and convention center in the 60s. And so, so much else. It's a nasty historical blight on our city. For a place that's so liberal and supposedly progressive, we have a nasty history of horrifying racial politics. Portland is a wonderful place for a lot of reasons, but the overwhelming whiteness really sucks.

@sarac: I live in your neighborhood! I appreciate that our neighborhood is more diverse than some in this city, but it's such a far cry from what I wish my kiddo would grow up with. I totally agree about Portland being so progressive, but having some serious issues with diversity, and an embarrassing history in regards to racial issues.

Interesting, thanks!

I posted this on FB last week. Keep in mind that I am a preacher's daughter and the vast majority of both my and DH's family are religious. Surprisingly, I didn't get a single negative response!

@Skadi: Agree 100%. While I agree that non-religious families can raise perfectly balanced, moral, upstanding children, I certainly don't think that it is BECAUSE they are atheists. You are completely right. Non-religious individuals overall are slightly better educated and have slightly higher incomes on average, which leads to a more stable and informed household.

I live in a liberal bastion in a very red, religious state.... And I honestly have never worried about this. I wasn't raised religious, so that's probably why.

@sarac: My city has gotten a very, very bad rap on the racial front recently, but it's actually very racially diverse (at least our area is). Its something I honestly do appreciate.

We will also be a secular family. But raising kids with morals and values, I call it "character education".

@MoreCoffee: I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school K-12. I didn't become an atheist until I was in college. I think my mentality growing up was that I would try to be a good person, but if I screwed up it was ok because I could just go to confession, say a few Hail Marys, and God would forgive me. I think I hold myself more accountable for my actions now that I don't have confession to fall back on.

@lawbee11: @Astro Bee: Our family left the church before I was confirmed so my memories are more of the positive, Sunday school variety. My dad had a pretty big crisis of faith and became an atheist; he's very vocal about it. I'm still not sure if I believe in a higher power or not as obviously I was exposed to conflicting extremes! I just try to cultivate the same environment of empathy, warmth, and tradition I remember - no Jesus required.

@loveisstrange: That's really great. I really wish that my city better reflected the overall world, instead of just being this bastion of overwhelming whiteness.

Can I be the annoying Christian to jump in?

I find this interesting. Although we plan on teaching kids about our faith and raising them in it, I would never assume that they need to understand the stories of our religion in order to practice morality! I would also never think that a family down the street who was atheist was more likely to be immoral or poorly behaved.

For us, yes our morality is tied up with our faith. But in the sense that we plan on teaching kids to treat others/the earth with kindness and respect because we believe all human life has value, not because "the bible says you have too." It always makes me sad when that's the experience so many people!

I do think it's fair to point out that some of this is probably related to income and culture. Like the prison population. African Americans are (unfairly) over represented in our prison system and also have strong cultural ties to Protestant religions. Whereas atheists are more likely to be wealthier and white, groups who are less likely to be imprisoned. But the point being that if you are raised atheist that doesn't mean it's an inevitable slide down to sex, drugs, and rock and roll is fair.

I was also raised in a very liberal catholic household (also a very religious one granted. And I think the media tends to focus on evangelical Christianity. So maybe my perception is off, but I don't know any religious people who think you need religion to be good!