Hellobee Boards

I already signed the petition about To Train Up A Child. I actually know someone who employs those practices, and I think its sick.
ETA - since you're my FB friend you may have seen it in my newsfeed. I COULD NOT BELIEVE she was justifying locking her (tiny) boys outside and whipping them with aquarium tubing.

A child was just killed in WA state by parents who practiced those teachings in "To Train Up a Child". Absolutely SICK. I'll be signing.

I don't know much about that book - it sounds horrible. I wouldn't be for the government banning such book, but I think I would be ok if the folks at Amazon decided not to carry it.

I will most certainly be signing.

I don't know much about these books, but if that is what they advocate, that's just terrible

However, my gut instinct is that I don't agree w/banning such books, even if it's by a retailer and not the government.

I've already signed and shared it, including with a FB page I admin. To Train Up A Child advocates literally sitting on your child to hold them down while you spank them until they stop crying "from anger and defiance" and only cry from pain. From as young as 3 months. They also say to NEVER back down, which is how kids are dying when they refuse to submit and the parents think they can't back down no matter what. The Pearl's books on marriage are pretty much as bad, advocating things like continuing to stay with an abusive husband and submit to him. I really cannot say enough bad about No Greater Joy. This blogger is doing a section by section break down of To Train Up A Child, Created to Be His Helpmeet, and Created to Need A Helpmeet, if anyone wants more specifics on the harm that can be wrought by following the Pearl's advice. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/tag/to-train-up-a-child And one of the best posts to show what I'm talking about with TTUAC- http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/11/ttuac-the-strings-that-suffocate.html

I agree with @TemperanceBrennan and @mrsjazz, I wouldn't want the government to ban them, but retailers should definitely think twice before making books like this readily available.

This just breaks my heart. I remember reading about the Pearl's book when I was in college and I felt ill. This is where censorship gets so sticky in my mind, but I do think that a major retailer refusing to sell the book would be a very reasonable option.

I signed. I generally don't agree with banning books, but it's not on a government scale...

I also generally pay no mind to how other people chose to raise and discipline their children, but advocating child abuse just turns my stomach...

when i read the recent story of the young girl whose parents were found guilty of murder because they followed this book's ideas, i felt physically ill. what is wrong with people?!

i'm definitely signing it and sharing it on facebook.

I can't deal with this!! This is too much for me to even read on this thread. I feel eff'n disgusted!!!

@mrbee: I've read excerpts from the To Train Up a Child book after the latest case with Hana, a girl who was killed by her parents. The excerpts I read are pretty horrible. I'm just so surprised there are morons who read the book and thought it sounded like good parenting.

@Torchwood: He really does have a way of making things sound reasonable and how if you don't listen to him, your kids will be the spawn of evil and you are the evil!

He contradicts himself often with every paragraph!

Oh my goodness, I am feeling sick now from just the little bit I've read on this thread. I cannot imagine employing some of these practices and feel sick to my stomach that people would actually buy into this. The sad thing is that I was a child protection social worker and I KNOW people do horrible things to their children, but to see it sanctioned in a book sold in a mainstream forum just makes me sick.

Freedom of speech is one thing, but to freely sell books that advocate criminal behaviour crosses the line in my opinion. I can't help but think if someone wrote a book on how to murder your spouse and conceal the evidence, there would be a big public outcry and a pulling of the book from the shelves, so why is there not with a book that advocates beating your child "until they cry from pain" (as per what @torchwood cited in her earlier post)? Ugh, I feel sick, heartbroken, and seriously disturbed right now.

@Mrs. Jump Rope: That sounds familiar!!

I was thinking that if they did this as a L&O episode, the first trial would focus on the parents... then after the half hour break, McCoy would start a second trial and press charges against the book co-authors for creating a criminal conspiracy to assault children or something. Then Adam Schiff would roll his eyes at the whole thing.

Sometimes I wish there really was a Jack McCoy out there...

What @Mrs. Jacks: said. I grew up under TTUAC and frequently read the issues of No Greater Joy (the magazine the authors publish) that came into my parents' home. I was terrified of my future children going to hell if I didn't use the methods prescribed. Thankfully, instinct took over when I had my own baby, even though I felt so guilty about not implementing the Pearls' methods. But fear, that's how they suck you in. I'm not sure what the difference between a psychopath and sociopath is, but Michael Pearl is one of them. FWIW, this one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the Duggars. I'm not sure if it's still there, but last time I checked (within the last 2 years), they recommended TTUAC on their website. Gross.
But anyways, no, I wouldn't be a fan of the government banning it, but getting Amazon to quit selling it would be just fine with me.

If I sold books I certainly wouldn't carry these titles so if Amazon decides not to carry them that'd be very nice.

@Mrs. Lion: I know you weren't advocating their methods but I've seen the idea that if it's not done in anger then it's not abuse on other blogs that promote spanking. I don't think most spanking is abuse (though we won't be doing it), but violent/abusive/hurtful things can be done even if a person isn't doing it in anger. If I calmly punch someone in the nose saying 'you deserved it' it probably causes as much pain as if I furrow my eyebrows and punch them in the nose.

Ugh, I just looked at http://www.nogreaterjoy.org and I'm so disturbed. How creepy can these people be?!?!

I need to go read/look at something happy now, like puppies scampering or kittens chasing yarn.

@Mrs. Jacks: I think Dobson practically raised me.

He, and Ezzo (Growing Kids God's Way).

@Mrs. Jacks, @Rainbow Sprinkles: Yes, Babywise is another one I can't stand--all of Ezzo's books are dangerous IMO. I refer friends who tell me they love Babywise here: http://www.ezzo.info.

To answer the original question, yes I will most likely sign. I don't love the idea of censorship, but I don't think books advocating child abuse of any kind should be protected. It's so sad to me that so many of these books hide behind a "Christian" guise and fool people into thinking they are doing things "God's way." In my opinion, God gave us intuition and soft hearts toward our children for a reason.

I signed - the whole thing is really disturbing.