Hellobee Boards

Great topic! I like your use of "y'all" instead of "you guys" in your opening-- haha! Not to make light of it, but I do say "you guys" a ton WHILE trying to learn how to minimize the harm/hurt I cause via microaggressions/ outright ignorance/jerkiness. This is an ongoing discussion in our household and circles. Not fun, but important.

Someone described experiencing microaggressions like this: it's like tripping over someone's outstretched feet, or getting your toe accidentally stepped on. There's no ill-intent, but it hurts. You can take the analogy further- usually when you trip someone, even by accident, you apologize and are more mindful of how you're stepping/stretching out. After all, you weren't trying to hurt anyone, but once you realize that you did impact someone negatively, you wouldn't want to repeat the incident.

Looking at some of the cited examples of microaggressions in the article- I don't think that "What are you? You're so interesting looking," is a dang " microaggression. That's just rude and "You are a credit to your race" is just a terribly weird thing to say.

Have you read this book? https://www.amazon.com/Whistling-Vivaldi-Stereotypes-Affect-Issues/dp/0393339726
Steele talks about stereotype threat, but it's relevant. Thought the book was helpful.

I guess I just think its sad that this needs to be taught to the kids today - most of their examples seem pretty obvious that you don't say them.

As for "you guys" I say it and always will - I will say it to a whole group of GIRLS - I promise not one person I know would be offended.

@Mamaof2: "As for "you guys" I say it and always will - I will say it to a whole group of GIRLS - I promise not one person I know would be offended." But if you met someone who WAS offended by it, would you continue to say it?

I think that's the point of these things. Sometimes we don't realize the things we say or the type of language we use might be offensive to someone else, and it's important to recognize if something we said was offensive and stop offending people.

It's just like how a lot of places and people are opting to say "Happy Holidays" these days instead of "Merry Christmas." Yeah, most people might not be offended if you said "Merry Christmas" to them and they didn't celebrate Christmas, but others might not feel as included because of the distinction, and isn't it better to try to be as inclusive as we can?

I think college is a fine time to examine predjudice and how speech comes off.

The examples in the article though seem to be doing a lot of judging about people's motivation, which seems weird when they're trying to combat judgemental behavior.

@Adira: Maybe Google can answer where 'you guys' came from - I donno. I know in many languages you refer to a mixed group or group of unknown people with male pronouns and conjugation. Is it sexist? Maybe, Is it something worth changing? Maybe. But it certainly doesn't mean everyone who speaks french, italian, spanish is sexist or being microaggressive.

@Mamaof2: I guess for me, political correctness is just a way of saying "Let's be polite to everyone and not offend people." I don't think you can really take that too far?

Of course, some people choose to be offended by the most ridiculous things. I have an Aunt who's very offended by people saying "Happy Holidays" to her instead of "Merry Christmas." I don't really get how someone wishing you good will can be offensive??

@kiddosc: But Merry Christmas isn't as inclusive as Happy Holidays.

I think intent is important, but I think it's possible to offend without meaning to, just as @mand4: said. Just because you don't mean to offend someone, doesn't mean you didn't. And it also doesn't mean the person who's offended doesn't have valid feelings on the subject.

But then, there's this:

I'm perfectly happy with people wishing me Merry Christmas. I am not offended by that. I do choose to interpret that as being more about them than it is about having a real exchange with me ("I want to talk about Christmas... something I value, that I am excited about...more than I really care to know this person to whom I am speaking). For example when I was in sales I sent holiday cards instead of Christmas cards because I was truly intending the card as a way to reach out to my customers and would not want to alienate them. I think people who choose to use non inclusive language put themselves in the position of being taken less seriously or having their attempts at connection thwarted. That's the risk you take when you choose not to use inclusive language in our very diverse culture. It honestly seems like its own punishment. Perhaps colleges don't want their students to go out into the business world without at least being exposed to this.

@BlueWolverine: +1 I'll never understand the hatred against "political correctness" and attempting to be inclusive and sensitive to others feelings. There is no downside, so why wouldn't you want to strive for it?!

Not a fan of the word "microaggression," but I do strive to be inclusive in how I speak and act.

I remember the first time I met two guys at a conference and we went out to coffee later... and to explain something, I used an example that assumed they were both straight. Later on, I found out that one of the guys was gay. He hadn't said anything at the time, but I still felt bad about it. It really changed how I speak, especially since I lived in a big city where sexual orientation was more diverse than I had experienced before. Now I assume that everyone may be LGBTQ and use more inclusive phrases instead of saying "girlfriend" or "boyfriend."

Sometimes it does feel like overkill, but I definitely don't want people to feel excluded or alienated in conversation. So I strive to be inclusive, even though it's different from how I spoke growing up. One upside: I've been helping my mom at her resort lately, and I can tell that guests appreciate more inclusive language - especially since there are so so many LGBTQ travelers. That response has really reinforced for me that inclusive language is worth the effort.

@BlueWolverine: I agree completely about merry Christmas....I think I just used that as an example because it is so relatable. Ultimately you can say whatever you want, but once you've said it, the words take on a life of their own. If you choose non inclusive language you reap what you sow. Privilege is not having to reap what you sow but our culture is so diverse now that those privileges are eroding and non inclusive language is increasingly risky for business or just personal communication.

@Boogs: I think that was exactly the right response! I think if you find something wrong or offensive, you speak up. If you accidentally offend someone, you apologize. Trying to eliminate any words that may possibly hurt someone's feelings... kind of impossible because in theory someone can be offended by anything. I've got some crazy stories about innocent things I said (or that were said to me) that caused hurt feelings.

And the PC movement came from a good and honorable place, it was once used to fight real prejudice and discrimination. But this thing with hunting down unintended slights is such a great wasted effort. We should be "offended" by war, and poverty, and abuse, and corruption, not microaggression.

@Mama Bird: I guess I'm failing to understand the difference between what you're saying and what is called "political correctness." If we can reach consensus that, to use an example from the essay, a white girl singing the n word while listening to an album is offensive to others, then why is it not ok to just hold white girls accountable for not using the n word even if they're just singing along to the radio? In your post you said, "if you hear something offensive you speak up." Ok, so people are speaking up...in the form of an awareness training. Is the fact that this is institutionalized the problem? Would it be better for a pedestrian to run up to a white girl singing the n word parked at a red light and say, "hey, that's really offensive, cut it out immediately" rather than for this same girl to sit in a seminar where a professional tells her, "many people find this hypothetical behavior offensive, so avoid it." That puts an awful lot of pressure on individuals to speak up against ignorance. We as adults, educators, and parents could avoid a lot of painful miscommunication if we tell our kids up front to be aware of the power of their words.

Also you mentioned that we should be offended by war, poverty, etc. Most of the microaggressions cited in the article are directly related to those things: “Of course he’ll get tenure, even though he hasn’t published much — he’s black.”; “What are you? You are so interesting looking.”; When a nonwhite faculty member is mistaken for a service worker; “You are a credit to your race.” All of those examples are microaggressions because the statements refuse to acknowledge barriers that are the result of poverty, racism, slavery, abuse, corruption, etc. etc.

I teach both high school and college aged students and the one thing I try to get across to them is that they are responsible for their message. You can't get the words back after you say them. Anyone is free to interpret your words once you say them, so select them carefully to reduce the chance that you are misinterpreted. I personally am not offended by much, but I do judge people based on how they speak and do write people off who don't use inclusive language because it belies a lack of education.

The thing I find the most bizarre about this article is that in my opinion, kids are so much better about this than adults. Really the kids don't need it as much as the adults do.

I use "you guys" and "dudes" a lot. Though I've trained myself now to only say it with friends/acquaintances. I'd never say that in a room with people I didn't know.

Microaggressions are real. I experience them, my husband experiences them. And because I experience them it made me take a look at my language because I don't ever want to make someone feel the way I've felt.

This is slightly off-topic but this section made me pause -- I get what she was trying to say but there's a difference between race and nationality -- one can be both Cuban and Black. Perhaps she was talking about being Black American?

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“I’ll give you an example,” Ms. Marlowe said. “I went to a conference. I was talking to this man. I thought he was black. I was talking about diversity and social justice.”

“He said, ‘I’m Cuban,’” Ms. Marlowe told the crowd. “I assumed he was black because he was the same skin complexion as me, and the same type of hair.”

@BlueWolverine: @Mrs. Sketchbook: You ladies explained this all much better than I could! Thank you!

A seminar on diversity and micro-aggression is a great use of college resources and time. I'm not sure if the instructor in the article is the best person to facilitate it given the examples. My SIL goes to a small liberal arts college and her RA sent letters prior to the start of school explaining inclusive pronoun language. I think our hyper sensitivity or awareness of those that feel marginalized is a good thing.

Heck, in the article I felt slighted when the group identified as benefiting from a seminar like this was "students from Wisconsin." The sentence clearly is referring to white students, but as a non-white person I don't ever just get to be a student.

We don't discuss enough what is hurtful/ harmful language and clearly we need to.

@Mrs. Sketchbook: 1-I'm a little in love with you and your explanatory skills
2- "You're a credit to your race" made me physically nauseous. Please tell me people don't actually say that. Lie to me if you have to.

Awareness is important.

As someone who grew up in a place with no diversity, I now cringe at some of my assumptions and missteps through the years that were just plain ignorance.

This effort reminds me of a seminar in college put on by the sexual violence prevention group that gave participants the opportunity to list an assortment of behaviors along a spectrum from helpful to harmful. Obviously sex without explicit consent while drinking prompted lots of discussion, but one of the most interesting behaviors included was telling a boy that he throws a ball like a girl. Many didn't see that as harmful in the least or even related to the topic until they had to consider it in depth (it's a common statement, but what does it really say?) and rank it on the spectrum. That was eye-opening.