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watermelon / 14206 posts
I honestly think that just because a confrontation between a white person and a black person happened, doesn't mean anyone is racist. I don't think GZ targeted TM just because of his skin color. It could have been how he dressed, how he walked, how his mannerisms are, how he talked, but not because he's black. I think if Trayvon Martin was white, walking down the road like he was Eminem, he still would have been targeted as suspicious.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@lisamarieloves: Me too! A white guy on meth would make me want to lock my doors. We aren't talking about crazy, drug addicted looking people. We are talking about college kids carrying books. We are talking about black guys in a suit.
GOLD / pomegranate / 3938 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I love college kids carrying books. And I love black guys in a suit!!
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@mrsjazz: FYI you have now repeated two things that I already said: Obama can't win and if TM was white Obama wouldn't say he looked like him. LOL
@Dandelion: I have a hard time calling practically anyone racist. But, prejudice and assumptions can be just as damning.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
It makes me really sad to see people who are judging this speech which will be read and studied for years to come in such a negative light. I think this was a very measured, balanced speech and I was delighted to see that both David brooks and EJ Dionne agreed on this account.
Keep in mind that there are a lot of people with an agenda of division. I'm not sure why racial animus has gotten so much worse lately, but I think it must in part be related to a perceived threat from whites about their declining majority in the population. So sad!
I also get sad when I see people buying in to the fatally misguided opinion that president Obama is a race warrior. Sad for the person saying it!
honeydew / 7687 posts
I haven't listened to his remarks but plan to later tonight... But I will offer what I think is a good primer on "white privilege" - something I try to keep in mind whenever I'm trying to wrap my head around discussions of race, racism, or racially motivated actions (which I believe GZ's were).
http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf
It's a little long, but accessible.
honeydew / 7687 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: I agree that it has to do with the changing demographics of the US. There are several groups, political and otherwise, that are in danger of losing their membership!
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@Dandelion: suspicious enough to be shot carrying skittles and ice tea? He was walking while black and talking on the phone. You are telling me if he was wearing a tennis sweater and khakis and white, that this would have happened. Really?
I think we need to have an honest good faith dialog about this... And I can't imagine that the way he looked didn't play into it!
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@scg00387: I'm so glad to see reference to "unpacking" all over the boards today.
GOLD / pineapple / 12662 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: You're mischaracterizing what was written . . . put *any* teenage boy in a hoodie, at dusk, walking through lawns while looking in windows in a neighborhood where there has been a recent string of robberies and then do the comparison.
ETA: An honest good faith dialogue requires analyzing the facts as objectively as possible.
pomelo / 5257 posts
I thought this photo from Howard University med school was pretty powerful. Just food for thought.
hostess / wonderful apple seed / 16729 posts
@MrsSCB: Wow! Powerful picture. Thanks for posting!
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
I hold no issue with the speech. I think, like others say, it is an important point to note and isn't just stirring the pot.
Anyway, I'm sorry but I can admit that as a white person I will NEVER know what it is like to be the focus of some of the discrimination. I was never cuffed and held against a police car when I was climbing into my house through a window after school because I was locked out - yet, my black cousin was. Cuffed and held against a police car that is. Luckily my white aunt came home and vouched for him. UNBELIEVABLE.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@MsLipGloss: I still think the outcome would be different. In fact I'm sure it would.
Take this test and observe your own biases. I'm happy to share mine. (slight bias towards African Americans). I encourage everyone to examine their deeply held beliefs that they might not be aware of.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/agg/blindspot/tablet.htm
grapefruit / 4582 posts
Neighborhood watch or not, gun laws permitting or not, the fact is he was instructed by authorities to leave him alone. His actions after that point make him entirely responsible. And race absolutely played a role. I believe if a white guy was in the same outfit as TM, he would have been left alone.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@luckypenny: yup. And if I were walking down the street in one of the hoodies I own, I doubt anyone would ever call the cops.
grapefruit / 4800 posts
@MrsSCB: Yeah I had no idea people found hoodies so scary until this case. Where we used to live it was a staple of the college wardrobe. I taught mainly pre-med students, who aren't exactly an intimidating bunch, and half the class would show up half asleep in their hoodies. It never occurred to me that anyone was trying to be intimidating. I wear one plenty (not to teach) but when it's cool out.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: No...maybe Eminem these days wears a tennis sweater and khaki's, but I'm talking about the "gangster" look that folks of all races wear. If it were a white man, dressed like a gangster, he still would have been targeted as suspicious.
cantaloupe / 6669 posts
I was in agreement with everything in the President's speech and I agree completely with @Mrs. Jacks that it will be read & studied for years to come. Obama has not been a perfect President, but I really appreciate his bravery in talking candidly about this.
Can I say that my heart just breaks for moms of black sons, and for my future black son if I am lucky enough to have one? It's a scary world for all kids and parents but especially black boys right now.
grapefruit / 4582 posts
@Dandelion: sure! Targeted as suspicious but chased down after authorities told GZ no? Doubt it.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@luckypenny: I agree...GZ should have let him go and listened to authorities. But, I don't think it was race. I think he just thought he knew better.
My ex husband is the same way and has gotten himself fired TWICE (once from the police force and once from a security job) for ignoring orders and thinking he knew better than them...not cause of racial issues, they're just asininely stubborn people.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Maysprout: Depends on who is underneath the hood apparently. I am also trying to figure out what is an acceptable speed to walk. Too slow and you are canvassing the premises. If you run, must because you just did something wrong. Old folks used to say walk with a sense of purpose, I took that to mean dbriskly walk. Is that a good, safe speed? Idk
grapefruit / 4800 posts
@Dandelion: How is a hoodie gangster? DH and I are not gangster at all and we both wear hoodies with the hood up (we're skinny people who get cold easily), no one has ever treated us like we're suspicious or implied that we look like thugs.
honeydew / 7687 posts
@Dandelion: I just can't get on board with that. If my lanky, Midwestern white husband was dressed like a "gangster" (which I don't think Trayvon was, at all) and wandered through a neighborhood where they had been robberies, the only police that would be called are the fashion police.
@daniellemybelle: It hurts my heart to even think about or try to imagine (I'm white and have a white son).
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: "Depends on who is underneath the hood apparently" -- exactly. If its just the hoodie, then I guess I am in danger of being accosted for looking suspicious whenever I wear one. I doubt anyone would honestly say that and believe it.
coconut / 8234 posts
@Dandelion: Gangster? Since when is wearing a hoodie and jeans gangster? I'm sure "gangsters" have worn hoodies, but so did almost every single person at my mostly white college upstate. No one would ever call them gangster.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@Maysprout: You're right, a hoodie isn't gangster...I have one and by no means do I look threatening!
Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't think he was targeted just cause he's black. I think GZ was over zealous, because he's a cop wannabe, and I think Trayvon stopped to confront him and they were both in the wrong.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Dandelion: you're absolutely right that GZ was over zealous and a cop wannabe but I think it's also good to remember that he had called 911 dozens of times about "suspicious" people and the vast majority of them were identified by GZ as black. I think that's very telling of his general attitude.
grapefruit / 4800 posts
@Dandelion: Yeah I have no idea what happened in the confrontation either.
I'm just saying it's not normal for someone to be walking to their house and have the cops called on them. Whether it be because he was a teenager or he was a stranger or he was black, I don't know. But I'm sure there's been other teenagers in the neighborhood and I'm sure there's been other people GZ didn't recognize in the neighborhood, especially at 7 pm, so I think that's why people come to the conclusion it was because of his skin.
persimmon / 1180 posts
@plantains: I completely agree with you. I'm sorry that you, and anyone else, have to face that kind of profiling and discrimination.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Dandelion: Trayvon would not have had the opportunity to ask Zimmerman why he was following him if Zimmerman stayed in his car. Laying blame on him as part of his death makes me sad.
If he wasn't wearing the hoodie...
If he wasn't looking at the houses...
If he didn't start walking faster to get away...
If he didn't ask him why he was being followed...
If he what? What could Trayvon have done to change George Zimmerman's mind to leave him alone?
watermelon / 14206 posts
I just have a hard time believing that it was purely because of skin color.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: But, why was he cutting through a gated community? It's gated to keep people who don't live there from being there for no reason. Cutting through isn't a reason. What's the point of the gate, then?
cantaloupe / 6751 posts
@Dandelion: didn't his dad's fiancé - who he was staying with - live in the gated community?
persimmon / 1180 posts
@luckypenny: I completely agree with you. I totally think if Trayvon was white, he'd be alive today.
coconut / 8234 posts
@Dandelion: He wasn't trespassing and had every right to be in that particular gated community. His father's fiancee lived in this community and that's whose home he was returning to. They had been visiting her that evening and allowed Trayvon to go to the store.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Dandelion: i think his dad's fiancee did live there, but even if she didn't, cutting through it isn't exactly a reason to get stalked or shot either. And even if GZ did know every person living in the neighborhood, he would never know all the people visiting. If he didnt recognize Trayvon, why wouldn't he assume he's a visitor?
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