This thread has been closed.
-
@Dandelion: And I agree with all you said.
-
@MrsTiz: I feel the same way. I wish the focus was on doing something positive, not trying to encourage racial tensions. Everyone is ignorantly prejudged in some way (I'm a young mom, people assume I'm an unwed teenage mother all the time. I won't leave the house without my wedding set but people still make comments and assumptions that couldn't be farther from the truth) and it's sad but fanning the flames of a heated trial, in my opinion, isn't going to fix anything. Talking to our kids, educating the next generation, teaching tolerance, acceptance... That's going to bring about change.
-
@Dandelion: lets agree to disagree. It was great hearing your thought process and point of view, it is always interesting to hear a different perspective even though my stance remains unchanged.
-
@septemberlove: exactly. We need to be more worried about teaching tolerance and color blindness to children, not letting them watch their parents burn flags and call each others names based off of their own feelings.
-
@septemberlove: i still don't understand why talking about racial discrimination which i think we can all agree still exists is a negative ting. When in the history of the world have problems been solved by sweeping them under the rug?
Things are racially tense right now, that is a fact. Talking about it isn't encouraging racial tensions, it is providing an outlet for the frustration. I have also been mistaken for a young unwed mother, i assure you that it feels nothing like being denied the opportunity to pay for a taxi based on the colour of your skin - and yes, in NYC cabbies are not shy about letting you know that is why they cant give you a ride.
Is it really so hard to fathom that we don't all have the same experiences in life and based on skin colour, sexual orientation etc some people just might suffer more often? I have no concept of what it feels like to be denied the opportunity to marry. This doesn't stop me from being support of equal marriage rights for all.
-
@MrsTiz: I'm sorry to be blunt here but colour blindness as demonstrated by multiple studies is nonexistent. Children see colour. It is up to us to teach them that different is just different not better or worse. Even my 13 month old DD can clearly see that DH and I are two different colours. She looks longer at white women and black men because she has a black mother and a white/asian father.
-
@plantains: then we should teach them to be accepting of all colors and people.
-
@MrsTiz: i agree, which is why we have be talking about it.
-
@plantains: because people aren't just talking. There are protests that have turned violent. I don't understand what the protesters think they're accomplishing, the jury isn't going to change their verdict. I'm not sure why you think focusing on better educating our children is sweeping it under the rug? I think things are very negative, inflamed, and controversial right now and I'd like to see that energy go towards something positive.
-
@plantains: You said it all already. I agree.
-
@plantains: being unable to pay for a cab, being mistaken for a teen mom and being subjected to ignorant comments about unwed mothers, both are unacceptable. I'm not sure why you think it has to be a "but mine is worse" thing. Both are intolerance, ignorance, and prejudice.
-
@septemberlove: GZ is an adult. Yes, we need to focus on raising children to be accepting and not hold prejudices. But, let's be real there is alot a grown man shot a child. Attitudes- adult attitudes- need to change.
Marching, media attention, and discussions on forums like this and IRL foster compassion, empathy, and understanding. People are a still casting blame on TM for his own death. He must have been doing something for GZ to target him. The boy was walking. That is all.
-
@Mrs. Jacks: Yes! Wouldn't an offer of a ride home or just offer of help been nice?
-
@Dandelion: what does it look like when someone looks like they're in a gang?
@MrsTiz: i posted a thread yesterday about a great article on children and attitudes toward race, they do a great job breaking down how being attempting to be colorblind effects children
http://boards.hellobee.com/topic/see-baby-discriminate-children-and-race@septemberlove: violence as a response to the trial is absolutely unacceptable, but as for the rest of the public outcry over it, i don't see how it's negative. where is the conversation going to come from regarding race relations in america if not in the wake such an event? if no one was reacting, would we see any change? for years race has been something no one was willing to talk about, 'we should accept everyone' and other vague statements aren't teaching future generations about the reality of race in america- a reality that until recently people weren't talking about. the fact that people weren't talking about it doesn't mean there wasn't a problem, what's coming out now isn't new, they're reactions to a reality that has been present for a very long time, feelings that have been building, now there is an opportunity for the conversation. i hope that by putting it out there we do see a change, but sitting quiet & accepting the current state of race in america does not change it. i don't see how there would be any change if we don't acknowledge the negative & controversial- they are the reason we NEED change.
-
<< I wish he had just told us that yes, it's a tragedy that a teen is dead and a man who shot him is free but, this is our justice system and the jury spoke. >>
@mediagirl: I agree that that context is super important! His entire comments didn't get that widely reported, but he started off his comments talking a bit about our justice system and emphasizing that the jury had spoken:
<< The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there are going to be a lot of arguments about the legal -- legal issues in the case. I’ll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues.
The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a -- in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury’s spoken, that’s how our system works. >>
I just reread his full comments and was struck at how it wasn't really a formal speech... it felt like he was kind of thinking out loud about this stuff, on a personal level. I'm sure all of his advisors told him not to speak from the heart... they were probably anticipating some of the reaction that we've seen in the media and elsewhere.
I think his remarks could have been more carefully worded at times, but really respect him for just speaking from the heart. You don't see that a lot from politicians these days!
-
@Dandelion: you keep saying that Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's face into the ground. There is actually no evidence of that. Zimmerman had one tiny laceration on his face, was seen by EMTs at the scene, turned down any treatment at the time. There was none of his blood on the pavement. Your theory did not hold up in court by testimony from experts. He may have been scared (I can't speak to state of mind for obvious reasons), but the weight of the evidence doesn't substantiate your supposition.
-
@mrbee you're right. I should have waited till this morning and read his speech again to respond. I watched his speech and unfortunately the second half of it overshadowed the first part and I forgot he did address it, whoops. Now that I read it again, I remember I was moved by his speech, until he went into the race portion. And then, I ended up falling asleep right before it ended.
-
@mrs. bird: @Mrs. Jacks: It came out in court that TM wasn't merely walking down the road. He was slowly stopping in front of houses, peering in windows. That in itself is enough to be suspicious, especially when the neighborhood had some previous problems with burglaries.
-
@Dandelion: The only witness to that is GZ, who I'd say as the one who killed him, isn't a reliable source. GZ also never mentioned that in the 911 calls just in his statements afterwards. Trayvon was on a path to his dad's house, he had every right to be in the neighborhood, it makes no sense that he was looking to rob a house less than 100 feet from where his dad lived, and talking on the phone, I look around at people's houses too when I'm walking back to my house.
-
@Dandelion: that is not the same as beating someone into the ground. I too look at houses as I go by in my neighborhood.
-
@Mrs. Jacks: Say you live in a community where lots of houses have recently been broken into. Most of the people who were breaking in hadn't been caught. It had been on going for a while. (As I said, Sanford is not a nice town...it is known for drugs and related problems. I've been there, it's a rough town. TM himself had had previous arrests himself for drug possession...even though GZ wouldn't have known that.)
Then, you see a guy, black, white, or whatever race you chose, at dark (7 pm in Feb in Florida is almost dark), slowing down and looking into everyone's windows. Given the circumstances of the problems in the neighborhood, wouldn't you be a little nervous? And, if you were neighborhood watchman, would you investigate the kid? Or would you trust every single person walking down the street that night, knowing what had been happening?
Granted, as I said above, I think GZ went too far with following him. But, I trust the justice system and all the csi-type investigating they do and if the system let him go, then that's all we can do. Rioting and turning violent in your own neighborhood isn't going to change the verdict.
-
@Dandelion: I don't think you can use GZ's comments about what happened that night as fact. He's the only person that said he saw TM "peering into windows." We don't know that he was slowing down and looking into everyone's windows. That's what GZ says. According to TM's friend he was on the phone with her most of the time and TM was walking home. You are choosing to believe GZs account, fine if you believe that, but it's not FACT. You don't know. Only two people really know what happened that night and one of them is dead.
Do I think GZ was biased and profiled TM? Yes, based on his past calls and the fact that most of the suspicious people he called the non-emergency line about were black men.
We have lots of break-ins to cars and homes in my area and many of the people that have been caught have been Central American men. But when I'm outside after dark and see someone who looks Central American I don't assume that they are about to rob a place or that they are suspicious. But that's just me, perhaps I don't do that because I don't like profiling people like that because it's happened to me. If I felt the person was doing something suspicious and was on a neighborhood watch, I might watch and report. Not get out of my car.
-
@mrsjazz: "If I was on a neighborhood watch, I might watch and report"
Would you call that profiling?
-
@Dandelion: I edited my comment before I saw your response to add that if I thought the person was doing something suspicious.
-
@mrsjazz: Maybe GZ fudged the story...I'm not arguing that getting out of his car was stupid. I'm just saying that I don't think he's racist. That's a really harsh word. Maybe profiling, maybe prejudice, but given the recent history of the neighborhood, it's not completely out of the blue.
Also, I don't think we shouldn't completely discount his story, just because we don't like him. I'm sure he didn't mean to kill TM. I was a little surprised he didn't get manslaughter, but I definitely didn't think he was going to get a murder sentence. But, hate crimes...no.
-
@Dandelion: I try not to profile people based on stereotypes. We know that GZ did based on his call records to the non-emergency line.
-
@Dandelion: I'm not completely discounting his story. I think that people see things through different lenses. I am not calling GZ a racist either. I think he has prejudices and those prejudices led to TMs death. I think two people could experience the same exact situation but tell the story differently. Another person could've seen TM that night and just thought he was on his phone talking and walking to get to a house out of the rain. I think we all see and experience things differently based on our experiences.
-
@mrsjazz: I'm not going to keep arguing this. If you saw the City of Sanford and saw the way people live and represent themselves there, maybe it would all make a lot more sense what I'm trying to say.
I've driven through there and lived a town away...it's not a good city. It's full of crime and drugs. it's sad that this happened, but people are murdered all the time in that city, within their races, and none of it has gotten this much attention.
-
@Dandelion: I've lived in East Oakland, downtown SF, Uganda Africa. I've found that the people I need to be afraid of are never the people you might think you should be afraid of. What I learned is to only be afraid after a situation goes down. The most helpful kind people are folks that might surprise you. You just have to be open to what is out there
I hope that I would have been the kind of person to give Trayvon a ride home.
-
@Dandelion: I do see what you're saying about being on guard in the wake of robberies. It makes sense.
But the reasoning for why Trayvon was targeted so aggressively just seems too reminiscent of the arguments that rapists use, the 'she was asking for it' argument. - If her skirt wasn't so short, if she hadn't given me a glance that made me know she wanted some, if she walked faster and didn't dawdle so much I wouldn't have thought she was interested. All I did was approach her with a loaded weapon and calmly detain her and ask her for sex.- It's not that I'm completely discounting GZ story I just don't see how it makes sense. I don't think someone walking down the street to their house is asking for it.
-
@Dandelion: I grew up in an area that has the highest crime rate in the borough so I don't think I really need to see Sanford to know a city of crime and drugs. That wouldn't change my opinions. We just disagree and that's ok.
@Maysprout: Yes, I've been thinking the same thing. We slutt shame rape victims, "What did she do to provoke him? What was she wearing?" It feels like the same thing was done to Trayvon.
-
Hey guys - I think a lot of ground has been covered here... and maybe we're starting to reach a consensus on where we agree, and where we don't.
What do you think of closing out the thread for now, and taking a break to focus on parenting-related discussions for a little while?
-
@mrbee: good idea!
-
I think the conversation has been respectful and helpful in the sense that we see where each other is coming from... But if it is cause for concern... Then maybe it is best.
Thread Closed
Subscribe to our newsletter
- Google Plus
- Stumbleupon
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Pinterest
- Favorite1
153 comments