This thread has been closed.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@MrsSCB: He wasn't just shot...he was shot as he was beating GZs head to the sidewalk.
GZ was over zealous, but he didn't just point blank shoot him.
cantaloupe / 6751 posts
If it wasn't Trayvon's race that made him look suspicious, then what was it? The hoodie? So that means any teen boy in a hoodie automatically looks suspicious? So that basically means my entire high school class... pretty much all the kids I went to college with... are walking around looking suspicious and, if they dont stop and answer the questions of some random guy who stops them on the street, they risk getting shot?
I don't get it.
pomegranate / 3314 posts
Man, I just can't with some of these comments. The way some of the white people on this board can be so blind to their own white privilege is pretty sad. I know it's challenging, but as others have suggested, just TRY and imagine some of the issues you might face as a person of color. I am white and I think about this often. To do otherwise is just not being an engaged member of society, in my opinion.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Dandelion: I grew up in a gated community and when we all walked home we did not use the gate entrance. We all cut through the golf course path that backed up to some homes and let out on a cul de sac. Even inside the neighborhood kids cut through yards and didn't use the sidewalks.
The point of our gate was to keep out non-residents via cars. Unless you had a code or proximity card you had to call a resident to enter.
apricot / 367 posts
I don't understand how people say that GZ was justified because TM began a physical altercation. However, imagine TM knowing that this guy with no legal authority is following him and watching him and he has no idea why. Is the guy going to mug him? Kidnap him? So he stood his ground and protected himself from what he felt was a real perceived threat. Was hitting GZ the right way to do that? No, but do you really think GZ would have accepted TM running away from him? He already completely disregarded the dispatcher's advice to stay in the car and took it upon himself to follow TM. I think it's a tragedy that GZ felt that he could play vigilante and tough cop and get away with it.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Dandelion: assuming GZ is telling the real story, couldn't it be possible that Trayvon might have fought back because he was afraid that he was being stalked by a stranger? And for good reasons obviously. But that still doesn't really explain the reason he was following Trayvon in the first place.
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
@mrsdoily: I was thinking the same..GZ is justified self defense but TM isn't.. I know there's a million what if scenarios that could be said but I can't help but wonder if someone was following me and I defended myself, even physically, the media would likely congratulate me. Maybe not the exact right word I want but I'm tired.. Lol.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@MrsSCB: True. Maybe it was about race and I'm naive. But, I don't think he shot Trayvon because he was black...followed, maybe, but that's not why he killed him.
persimmon / 1233 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: That was interesting. I got a moderate preference for European American children, though I'm curious about the methodology. It was hard for me to reverse in my mind the pleasant/unpleasant association since it started out with AA (or maybe that's just my subconscious racism which is of course the point!).
Anyway, I think it's sad that so many here don't seem to believe others' experiences (including our President's). We need to learn from each other and be open to the fact that people have different realities and they can all be valid and true. I, a white woman, have never experienced someone eyeing me with suspicion in a store. I've never experienced people locking their car doors when they see me walking down the street late at night. But I believe black people when they say they experience these things. And I think race absolutely played a role in the Trayvon Martin case. Regardless, to suggest that racist things don't really happen and it's just all about a teen in a hoodie is way too dismissive of the harsh realities that so many people face every day.
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
@meredithNYC: I agree that we can all have more empathy for others!
As a general comment on this thread and others: could I ask that we all refrain from personal attacks, or judgments that might be seen as such? Hellobee is a place where we can definitely discuss tough topics we all don't agree on, but it goes best when we focus on discussing the issues (not each other). Thanks guys!
watermelon / 14206 posts
@meredithNYC: I don't think racism isn't real...I live in the South, I've seen it in person. I just don't think it applies here.
grapefruit / 4291 posts
This might be slightly off topic, but does anybody have a more recent photo of Trayvon? I've seen a couple of articles on the net stating that the most common photo of Trayvon is about five years old and I'd be curious to see how he looked like rather than how the media want us to think he looked.
I've seen this image floating around but I've also seen a retraction stating that the boy isn't actually Trayvon:
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Kemma: the idea that a lot of the popular photos of Trayvon are really old is actually false. In the one with the Hollister shirt that was pubbed everywhere, he was actually 16. http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-03/opinions/40348822_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@Dandelion: I respectfully and strongly disagree. The president and other thought leaders agree with my assessment.
nectarine / 2132 posts
even gz's lawyers stated that at least part of the reason gz targeted tm was because of his race so for anyone else to deny that seems a little (or a lot) naive.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Kemma: I just Googled his crime scene photo. It would be in poor taste to post. He was wearing a black hoodie, light blue or grsy jeans and white shoes. He looked tall and lanky.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@hummusgirl: it has a pretty rigorous methodology. I think they vary which order you get the associations. So someone else starts differently than you did. That way they can take away the effect of order.
grapefruit / 4291 posts
@MrsSCB: interesting!
I guess the unfortunate thing is that the general public is at the mercy of the media when it comes to the info that's available and I know from first hand experience that what's published isn't always correct and is often skewed to suit a purpose or opinion.
I guess at the end of the day the only two people that really know what went on are GZ and TM and only GZ survived to tell the tale.
persimmon / 1116 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: This. Im so tired of ppl saying things like: if ANYONE approached me or got in the elevator or came close to my car or .... I would react the same way. Sure, I would too. That may be the case. But thats not the point of this conversation. Thats a convo for talking about how we live in a world where kids are kidnapped and ppl break into houses and go crazy. When is the last time someone asked a white male or female if they were the help *because* they were white?
ETA: Also, I am white.
grapefruit / 4671 posts
@MrsMcD: super late replying because i was stuck at work, but oddly enough i live in NYC! The city is amazingly diverse and i have a good mix of friends, but these things still happen to me all the time. I have accepted it, and if we need a cab i make my caucasian/asian DH do the hailing or we would never get home!
grapefruit / 4671 posts
@Dandelion: I'm curious, why are you so certain that race wasn't a factor here? If he was motivated by race to follow Trayvon, then how can you be sure that he wasn't motivated by race to kill him? This is a genuine question, I'm trying to understand your thought process.
To me i have a hard time separating one from the other anyway. GZ's decision to follow TM was racially motivated and as a result of that TM is dead. Everything else doesn't really matter to me.
pear / 1861 posts
@meredithNYC: I noticed this is some comments of a friend on FB. Some didn't know racism even really still existed until they married a black man or muslim man. I'm STILL in awe of that!
eggplant / 11824 posts
@meredithNYC: YES to everything you said. I just can't engage anymore (though I probably still will, haha) with people who think race had nothing to do with this. Read GZ's own words: "They always get away". Who do you think the "they" is - teenagers? Come on now. Talking about the HUGE racial divide in this country is not "stirring the pot".
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
Here's a nice analysis of President Obama's speech for those who might be interested:
honeydew / 7687 posts
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@scg00387: Looks like his brother really took the high road in that interview. I'm impressed.
bananas / 9628 posts
@Dandelion: "It could have been how he dressed, how he walked, how his mannerisms are, how he talked, but not because he's black. I think if Trayvon Martin was white, walking down the road like he was Eminem, he still would have been targeted as suspicious." the way this statement comes across to me is that skin color isn't something that should raise suspicion, but that culture- dress, vernacular, mannerisms things that can come along with skin color should. there is a black american culture- eminem has been criticized for being a white man within it, i assume that since you brought him up you are referring to the culture he is associated with. so basically what i'm getting from this is that black american culture, displayed by a person of any race, raises suspicion, am i following correctly? and that makes it less racist?
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
Not to keep chiming in, but I just read something that I absolutely love it said, "I want to live in a world where George Zimmerman offered Trayvon Martin a ride home to get him out of the rain that night".
hostess / wonderful persimmon / 25556 posts
I think any president in office would have had to make a statement. Why? It's a week after the verdict and there are still people protesting and getting arrested trying to do.... I'm not sure what. Tell the jurors they were wrong? Avenge TM's death? Make a statement, I guess.
It's something that has been in the news and has a lot of media attention. Whether Obama, Bush or Clinton were in office right now, I think they would have felt compelled to say something. No, a white president couldn't say, that could have been me but they could have said what I wish Obama had said. Obama said he wanted to elaborate on his original remarks. He never did that. He talked about being black in America. I wish he had just told us that yes, it's a tragedy that a teen is dead and a man who shot him is free but, this is our justice system and the jury spoke.
blogger / pomelo / 5361 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: That test is interesting. I showed "little to no preference" between African-American and European American children, but I'm interested to know the methodology behind it.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@Mrs. Blue: There is a TON published on it. Let me see if I can find some of the formative work to share with you.
Here is a pretty good summary of the literature about it, including controversies and effectiveness in assessment. http://www.psych-it.com.au/Psychlopedia/article.asp?id=104
pear / 1510 posts
@Mrs. Jacks: I saw that as well and loved it. Think it was an Episcopalian bishop in Florida.
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@BlueWolverine: Bishop G. Brewer from the Episcopalian church. I put it on my Facebook feed and it is blowing up with likes and comments
watermelon / 14206 posts
@plantains: Because I'm certain that GZ was just an over zealous guy and anyone smashing his head on the sidewalk would have gotten shot. I'm saying GZ is totally innocent...I just think he was an idiot not following orders. And, then the string of events occurred.
@mrs. bird: It's not black american culture. It's a gang culture, which encompasses many races, not just black. I've seen the damage that a gang can do. If people choose to act like they're in a gang, even if they're not, then they're going to be targeted as suspicious.
I don't know how Trayvon Martin was presenting himself, and I do think GZ was over zealous, but I'm sorry...as strongly as you all think it's about race I don't think so.
grapefruit / 4671 posts
@Dandelion: but why are you certain of this? What evidence do you have to back that up besides the word of GZ? The investigator on the scene of the crime stated clearly that the evidence at the crime scene is not consistent with this statement.
Also, sorry to say but there is nothing gangster about hoodies and jeans, nothing.
nectarine / 2127 posts
"I wish he had just told us that yes, it's a tragedy that a teen is dead and a man who shot him is free but, this is our justice system and the jury spoke."
I agree @mediagirl. As POTUS he should show respect for the justice system in our country and the jury, who were dealt a very difficult case and applied the laws of the state of Florida in rendering a verdict.
watermelon / 14206 posts
@plantains: We're not going to agree, and it's fine. I don't want to keep going in circles. Everything I said keeps being taken the wrong way and I'm sorry.
Like I said before, I know racism exists...I'm not pretending it doesn't. I just don't think this was about that this time. Not every conflict between races is about races. I know of a recent story in Upstate NY where a black man murdered 2 white women, but I don't think it's because he hates white women. I think it's because he's someone that makes bad choices.
And in GZ's case, I think he was an idiot, but not a racist, and made a bad choice by following TM. Maybe it's more of my gut instinct, because I know of someone exactly like GZ who I know would be that stupid (my ex) to ignore instructions to leave the kid alone. I know my ex wouldn't be able to let it go, cause he always thinks he has something to prove. I think GZ is the same way. I just see it in GZ's personality.
Also, I agreed before that hoodies and jeans aren't gangster. I wasn't saying TM was...sorry to allude to that. I didn't see TM walking down the road, so I don't know what was pegging him as suspicious. I still put a lot of blame on GZ, but not because of race.
I've lived the next town over from their town and I know that Sanford is not a town that is completely safe. It's known in that area for crimes and drugs. It's a dirty run down town and everyone is suspicious of each other there. There is a fear atmosphere there. A lot of crimes had been committed in GZ's neighborhood before the TM event, and I think GZ was just over zealous, thinking that everyone was a suspect if he didn't know them.
I'm sorry that going with my gut isn't suitable here, and I know it wouldn't fly in a court room, but it's just how I feel about the situation.
cantaloupe / 6800 posts
@yoursilverlining: I think by "they" he meant suspicious people. He was on the phone with the operator long before she asked what color he was.
The fact that people can't see past the race part of this is so sad to me. A teenage boy is dead. Why do we need to fight over race? The only racist comment I heard the entire trial was from TM's girlfriend. Acting like only white people can be racist is so one sided, I have heard disgusting things come out of all color people regarding this trial and I wish people would focus on the law and the crime instead of the color of the people involved.
In regards to the original question, I think Obama is everyone's president depending on who he's talking to. I'm not a fan, but he was polite to say something.
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