I noticed the last thread was closed. Opening a new one in case people want to continue discussing this, and what we can do to prevent it from happening again.
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I'm not sure why it was closed in the first place.
When I first saw it in my news feed, all I felt was pure anger. This shouldn't be a recurring event that happens every month! I think what makes me more angry is that when this happens, you see more of an effort to protect gun rights instead of finding ways to prevent this from happening.
There is more info on the suspects but motivation seems unclear. It's just so sad
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I think it was closed by OP
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I'm really tired of hearing about gun "rights" as if they have no limit. All rights we have are limited. All of them. Yes, you have freedom of speech, but you don't have the freedom to use fighting words or incite violence. Yes, you have free exercise of religion unless you break the law/hurt someone. This idea that gun "rights" are unlimited is ridiculous.
As you might be able to tell, I'm pretty angry about this too.
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It was closed? Strange. I am so disturbed by this and by the fact that we are so concerned with not offending people that we aren't willing to have conversations about these events and how to stop them. We'd rather, as a culture, sit around and say, "oh this is terrible! But.....there's nothing we can do." There are things we can do!
It happens so often now that people just want to turn off the news and not know. I'm so upset that this is the world/country that my boys are going to grow up in.
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They're doing a news conference now. Not that this will surprise anyone, but the guns were legally purchased. Suspects fired between 65 and 75 rounds. Doesn't seem to be a clear motive yet (the guy did work there, but other than that I haven't heard many details about why).
@Freckles: I agree, it's sad. In this country, it seems always guns > lives. The guns were legally purchased and they had over 1400 rounds? WTF.
ETA: @BlueWolverine: YES. I always say that rights come with responsibilities. Even the right to freedom comes with responsibilities (e.g. don't commit a crime or you'll go to jail). Adding additional, sensible regulations to guns does NOT mean taking away rights.
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@MrsSCB: There is some evidence that he was radicalized around when he got married a couple years ago. He was in contact with some FBI wanted radicalized foreigners. It still isn't clear how much was that, versus work place anger etc.
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@travellingbee: Maybe a combo of both? They also said in the conference that they were clearly equipped for another attack so I guess they had more in the works. Scary thought
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I would love to see a seperare discussion called "gun control" or something more specific to the topic at hand instead of "San Bernardino." The town gets a bad enough rap as it is.
I believe the original thread was to check in on people that are directly impacted, like me. Who have loved ones they were terrified for, like me. Who are grieving and scared, like me. And to sure all our bees in the area are safe.
Gun control definitely has a time and place to be discussed, especially in light of this situation, so I'm glad to see the conversation. It need to be talked about. However, not in a place where people like me are grieving for their friends, loved ones, and town
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@jedeve: Can you change the thread name to "Reactions to the recent mass shootings?" or something like that?
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I feel sad and angry about this and the 350+ other mass shootings we’ve had this year. I am scared for the world my LO is growing up into in the US. I’m sad that when I was watching the news last night and they were going over the bigger mass shootings of the past few years I couldn’t even remember a bunch of them because let’s be honest: even if you watch the news on a daily basis, there are just so many shootings that it’s nearly impossible to keep them all straight, and that’s a pathetic situation for a first-world nation. I’m sad that as soon as the suspects’ names were released, the whole of the internet was filled with calls about how horrible etc Muslims are and how it *must* be terrorism – when of course 99% of the people spewing this bile have never said boo about the fact that white men shoot up this country on a near daily basis, and they never call that terrorism or call for white men to be barred from movie theaters, churches or schools.
I feel like if as a country we decided we were OK with a room full of 5 years old getting shot to death and have done nothing to curb the violence following that, there is no hope for change. But, I don’t want to give up hope, because we need changes.
I’m generally really irritated by the total lack of understanding that so many people have about the NRA’s position on gun rights and how radically it has shifted in the past just 7-8 years. They have not always advocated for the same things they are advocating for now, not even close.
The one thing I am absolutely SICK and TIRED of hearing is “prayers and thoughts” for the victims’ families and those impacted from those politicians and people who repeatedly block any and all efforts for gun reform, better access to / funding for mental health treatment, etc. At this point, it’s just so disingenuous, shallow and hollow.
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@yoursilverlining: I agree. I think this is the only time I truly have considered moving to another country because I feel like this place is so unsafe for LO to grow up in! Over a year ago there was a shooting at DH's grad school (private, Christian college) and those few minutes from when I heard about it to reaching him to find out he was safe was absolutely terrifying. I can't imagine if LO was in danger. And I agree, thinking of the school children massacred makes me ill - I can't believe that didn't prompt massive change. Though I guess I can believe it because it takes way too much effort to get our giant and disagreeable country to agree on anything.
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@yoursilverlining: <<I feel like if as a country we decided we were OK with a room full of 5 years old getting shot to death and have done nothing to curb the violence following that, there is no hope for change.>> This. So much this. If we didn't do anything after Sandy Hook, I'm not going to be surprised when we don't do anything now.
This is why it's so important to get out there and vote for people who actually want to make changes in this arena. If we just continue to let the same people who refuse to do anything be in charge, then of course nothing will change.
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@Crystal: I agree re: separate threads.
I hope all of your loved ones are safe. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your community. -
What Crystal said is exactly why I closed the previous thread. If the first post was read fully, I wanted that thread to be a place of support and compassion for those who had been directly impacted...not a thread where people discussed their particular views on what may or may not have happened or on gun control or terrorism.
And I agree with Crystal that the title of this thread should be edited so that it's more about what you hope to discuss - safety, gun control or terrorism. It's a shame to do so under the name of a city that was unfortunately targeted.
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There's lots of talk about mental illness and I think health records do need to be released to a number of independent drs for review. There's got to be some serious mental issues for a new mom to aid in mass murder and not everyone responds to all medications well.
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Regarding gun control in general, we have relatively strict laws in California and still a lot of gun crime. While we are all talking about what we're sick of, I'm tired of (and this is not directed at anyone here) all the people who say we "need to do something" about this and that's about as far as the discussion goes. There's no education about how guns actually work (at least in my circle, it's all "common sense" or in the case of social media, memes) or what gun laws could actually work here in California and the US. If prayers and thoughts are empty (and I agree much of the time they are) then, imo, so are these sentiments. For example why, even in California, are the parts that make assault rifles categorized as assault rifles legal, while the assault rifles themselves are not? If someone's going to go and commit a crime like this, I don't think they're going to hesitate to modify their weapon. (ETA and that especially applies to people who'd be willing and able to make bombs!) And in California specifically, why under prop 47 is it only a misdemeanor to steal a gun as long as it's under the $950 limit? Some aspects of gun control do seem like common sense (like background checks as a minimum) and I do support them but sometimes it feels like the politicians are just doing something so they can say they did something (I guess what can I expect from a politician...) rather than caring whether it actually works.
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@Crystal: @travellingbee: @agold:
My hometown was the site of the deadliest shooting in U.S. history. My sister was on campus at the time. A former classmate of mine died. It was, and still is, horrifying. I didn't enjoy hearing people discuss gun control immediately either. It was too soon. In the last seven years, mass shootings have gotten so frequent there is no ability to wait and let a community mourn before discussing. They all overlap.
I named the thread what I did though because even though I cringe when I see my town listed as just another site, I did want to talk about this event specifically. The lack of clarity between it being "terrorism" and a "regular" mass shooting makes this event unique, and important. It makes us question what the distinction really has ever been.
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@jedeve: I agree. I started a thread after Sandy Hook and was similarly scolded. I also have family that went to VT at the time and knew people that were shot (but thankfully didn't die). It's fine to talk about the incidents and try to process. If someone doesn't want to talk about it don't open the thread or respond.
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@jedeve: I was under lock down yesterday. My husband was evacuated by police and shepherded away. People we know directly are dead. weve dealt with bomb sweepings and not being able to get home. It is too soon for me. Far too soon.
There is a difference between discussing the situation and how it's unfolding vs a debate about gun control. I don't mind a place to share in sadness and discuss the situation, but I respectfully (and I hope understandably) request that if there is to be a debate about gun control it's listed separately.
As someone who has also been impacted by tragedy, I hope you can understand.
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@agold: thank you. We've had a rough 24 hours, but are amongst the incredibly lucky.
@MaryM: thank you for the compassion and support.
️
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@Crystal: I'm sorry. That sounds terrifying. I'm glad you are ok.
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@Mrs. Champagne: thank you. Even though all of the suspects are supposedly caught, it's hard to regain a feeling a safety.
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@Crystal: I am so sorry for what you are going through
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Have you guys seen this map about how guns travel and are trafficked throughout the U.S.? For me it showed how we need consistent federal gun laws, not state by state.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/12/us/gun-traffickers-smuggling-state-gun-laws.html
Today I am glad for the armed police officer who sits outside of my office to buzz people in...and the other armed officers and security in the lobby. I don't want to be happy about something like that, but I am happy to have security--though our officers wouldn't have the ammo up against people like these two in San Bernardino.
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@mrsjazz: I say this all the time when I hear people comparing the strictness of regulations between states -- there is no state border control. Nothing to stop someone buying a gun in a lax state and carrying it to a strict one. We are only as good as the worst of us in that regard.
I also feel that every time something like this happens, which is sadly becoming commonplace, and nothing is done, it is disrespectful to the victims and their families. I know these conversations are hard, but they are necessary. It would be worse to not discuss, in relation to these tragedies, how to prevent them from happening again, IMO.
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@Crystal:
*big hugs* So glad you are safe. Sorry this was so near you.
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@Crystal: I went to edit this and the site refreshed and now the edit option is gone. I do think there will continue to be discussion of gun control on this thread though, and I understand why that can be difficult.
@Maysprout: I'm sorry and glad your family is okay. I remember learning at then that the time that is most difficult for the community is 18 mo later. The effects of it, seven years later, is still felt deeply. I think people underestimate how far reaching the impacts are. We had a family friend who was a straight A student, was in the form during the first shooting, her grades crashed and she couldn't get into med school after that. I still feel like vomiting and I cry whenever I hear about a shooting. My body starts shaking and I go back to remembering what it was like to not be home and not know if people I loved were alive.
@mrsjazz: I agree consistent laws are key. It's not like there is customs at state borders that prevent people from bringing a gun legal in one state into the next. We do need to figure out a way to reduce the already existing gun supply, and that won't be easy.
Has anyone heard if there is more update on the motivation of the shooter? My access to news is limited since I don't want the kids listening to this.
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@Crystal: it might be good for you to start another thread. I think people are interested in your perspective and discussing the event the way you want to. I'm so sorry for what you went through, every time these occur it opens the old terrors up, which is I think why I made a thread after a previous incident and jedeve made one now. It's a different anger and processing that still needs to be discussed.
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@jedeve: I know there is talk of the shooter having been recently radicalized. As for his specific motive, I don't know if we can know that. And what kind of a wife leaves her baby to join in on something like this? She'd have to be following a pretty strong ideology to do something like that, I would think.
I always hear about "gun control" but I never know what is specifically being proposed.
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@Crystal: It is for sure hard to regain a feeling of safety. Because even though the two shooters were killed, who else were they working with?
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I think discussing the situation and the larger sunject of gun control unfortunately go hand in hand because of the frequency of mass shootings now. Different people handle trauma and tragedies like this in different ways. There are families of victims that immediately begin speaking about gun control after something like this happens and others who want nothing to do with the conversation. I respect both points of view.
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@jedeve: I don't know how the existing guns in our society can be reduced. Only law abiding citizen would comply with such a mandate. And really.. it would be very hard for me to turn over all of my legally obtained guns.
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@jedeve: yes, I shake too just thinking of talking to my sister while she was scared and hiding. She breaks down every time one of these happen and has trouble focusing for several days, it took a lot of bravery through fear going back on campus. But yeah I feel a strong need to analyze and have real discussions afterwards bc people stop caring after the event and it just keeps happening. I think raw emotions are a good time to talk.
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@snowjewelz: thank you. We really are very lucky.
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@Raindrop: thank you. Still lots of cops in the street, which is equally comforting and terrifying.
@Maysprout: I responded here to explain my perspective of why the original thread was closed. What I described and requested IS what the original thread was for, and it was closed because people started discussing gun control. I'm not requesting this turn into a warm and fuzzy thread (though I am extremely extremely appreciative of the nice thoughts I have received- it's meant more than you will ever know during this scary and horrible time). All I was requesting was to differentiate this thread that was started specifically for the debate via title.
@agold: that's exactly my worry, especially for my husband.
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@jedeve: I'm happy to rename the thread! Just let me know what to change it to.
@Freckles: yah the other thread must've been closed by the OP! We allow thread starters to close their own threads...
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@mrbee: San Bernardino events/causes/solutions/condolences/discussion
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@Crystal: I'm so, so sorry for your loss.
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@Freckles: couldn't agree more . Have you seen this post? Hits the nail on the head regarding the gun control debate.
https://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/02/1456140/-Your-opinion-on-gun-control-doesn-t-matter?detail=facebook?detail=facebookI'm so tired of having the same conversation over and over again with no action, not even an attempt at resolution. Really makes me feel like the government doesn't care one bit about the safety of its citizens. How does the saying go? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Also, it goes a lot deeper than gun control. We need to address the underlying reasons why people do these things. We need to be proactive, not reactive.
I hope all of your loved ones are safe. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your community. 
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