Next week, I get to vote in a referendum, to determine whether the UK will remain in the EU or leave it.
Which way would you go? And why?
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I don't have an opinion on it, but it seems that my British friends living here are opposed. A Brexit will wreck havoc on their work and immigration status.
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I think stay!
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We'll be voting remain x
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@imbali: Me too. I'm terrified that the leave campaign is going to win, though.... Really scary stuff...
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@Cherrybee: I'm terrified as well! DH is voting remain but I obviously can't vote as I'm not a citizen yet. I just don't understand how so many people can be so staunchly for leaving. Do they really not realise the massive economic repercussions this would have?!
I'm due next Wednesday, one day before the referendum, and I'll be delivering at a hospital 35 minutes away from home, but I told DH I don't care what is happening with the baby, he absolutely, unequivocally has got to make sure he votes!!!
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Team Brexit!
Look at Switzerland, not being in the EU has been great for them as an economy.
But I am presuming the exit would be gradual, or is that not how it would play out? What about Schengen?
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I am actually super pissed that so many people are for Brexit on these simplistic arguments without realizing what a nightmare it would be for Britain. The comparisons to countries with completely different demographics and trade situations is just scary. Ugh. Remain, the answer is always to remain.
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What are the pros and cons of it? Sorry, I haven't head much about this. I do get my news from BBC. Although, I have been focused around the shootings lately.
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@looch: We are not in the Schengen area anyway - we have to accept "free movement of people" but we still have border control/passport checking etc.
@Ree723: My mum is voting leave (gah!) because she believes in Schrödinger's immigrant (y'know, they come here to take our jobs AND claim our unemployment benefit simultaneously).
@bluestriped bee: I deliberately didn't say in my post.... It has actually been really tough to find any unbiased info. I guess the main issues are:
1) We pay to be in the EU - £350 million a week. But we do get a rebate and lots of money back in the form of subsidies (for example farming subsidies). I don't know the actual net cost.
2) We are part of the "single market". This means we can trade with each other with no restrictions or tariffs. We don't have our own trade agreements with USA, China etc - we have to use the EU's. The leave campaign tell us we can negotiate our own agreements - better ones! - and the remain campaign tells us this isn't guaranteed and the results could be catastrophic for our economy. While we are in the EU, we have to comply with their regulations (eg safety standards of products, workers rights) and that can be quite restrictive for smaller business (but who doesn't love workers rights?!).
3) Immigration. While in the EU, we have to accept "free movement of people". Experts tell us the net result of migration is positive - immigrants contribute more than they take overall - many people feel we are being overrun and this has a negative impact on public services (like the NHS). Plus, with countries like Turkey and Albania in the queue to join, many people are scared (I think wrongly) that we will be overrun with "extremists".
4) EU law supercedes UK law and the EU is allllll about protecting peoples rights. Now I love my right to a fair trial and protection from torture, but it is galling when we cant detain a suspected terrorist any longer or deport a hate preacher because their rights are protected by the EU. My maternity rights came from the EU and I love them, but businesses might not like them so much!
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@Cherrybee: To be honest, I'm not really sure what to think. My gut reaction says stay, but it's complicated. For example, leaving would mean no longer paying to be part of the EU, but then you'd be giving up the free trade aspects. But then the UK is probably in a good position to negotiate, so maybe that wouldn't be so dire. All in all I'm not super convinced about the arguments for leaving. And now it's all taken quite an ugly turn today, which is very sad.
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@MrsSCB: God, it's terrible that things have turned so violent. I just had no idea the argument had reached that level. It's dreadful. Just utterly dreadful.
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@meredithNYC: same, so shocking and tragic. I'm glad they're suspending things for now if it's getting to this level of animosity
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Probably, yes, actually. They don't have the same basis of an economy as most of the continent (export driven vs import driven), and it was a super tenuous agreement to being with.
I like the idea of a united continent, but I think that it was always more "unified" on paper than in reality.
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@Cherrybee: So it's possible then, with a Brexit, to join Schengen, and then you still have some movement of people, correct?
Do you think that the UK will ever adopt the Euro?
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@bluestriped bee: @Cherrybee: This week's Slate's Political Gabfest had a good overview of the issue with a British journalist from The Economist. He basically likened the pro-Brexit voters as sort of in the same vein as Trump supporters - older white males who are upset that factory jobs are gone and are being left behind in this new economy.
He also said the £350 million a week stat was just false, but that it's become an emotional issue where people are making up their own "facts." I thought it was interesting that in the name of being balanced, the BBC has to give equal time to both sides of the issue, so they might have a well-respected economist giving the argument to stay, and then they have to find some random crackpot to argue for exiting - and then people just think there are arguments on either side and get fed up and stop paying close attention. I really hope the people vote to stay. So, so sad about the killing.
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@looch: Well, yes, technically it would be possible to join (Norway is part of Schengen but not the EU) - but why on earth would we want to do that? Both sides of the campaign agree that we want to control our own borders and the immigration issues (ie not wanting to accept immigrants indiscriminately) is the hot button issue for everyone who wants to leave. As for the Euro - God, I hope not!
@MrsSCB: @meredithNYC: Jo Cox was an amazing woman. 41, mother of 2, a member of parliament who worked tirelessly to campaign for refugees - recently, child refugees from Syria. The Syrian refugee crisis has been a hot topic amongst "Brexiteers", with many feeling that we have taken more people into the country that we can cope with, with more to come. Many blame this on the EU. There is also the fear that ISIS militants might sneak in along with them.
So much fear. The guy who murdered Jo Cox was clearly a nut job..... its heartbreaking, she was one of the very best. 
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@hummusgirl: There are some very high profile, educated government ministers who are pro leave.... but they have their own agendas (Boris Johnson wants to be prime minister for example). Its why it has been so hard to make sense of it all.
I just cant believe they gave us a referendum. Most of the country is completely baffled but it, those who think they understand dont and its too big a decision to leave up to us!
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@Cherrybee: It's crazy. The journalist guy said David Cameron's personality is to gamble and take risks, and he bet on the fact that the people would reject it...but clearly it's not going the direction he hoped for. Yikes. Fingers crossed for you guys!
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@Cherrybee: I thought that with Schengen you still get free movement of travellers, but you can still then create your own immigration rules if you're not an EU member state.
And why such the strong ties to the pound?
Thanks for taking the time to educate all of us over on this side of the pond!
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@looch: Ha! I'm the last person you want educating you on this stuff! I'm trying really hard to get my head around it - I'm probably wrong about loads of stuff. But I involve myself in threads about your politics, so I thought I'd ask opinions on mine. I joked to DH that whatever the outcome of the poll, that's what I would vote!
The main issue with the Euro is that you don't get to set your own monetary policies. So Europe decides when to raise/lower interest rates for example. Our entire housing market is dependent on interest rates - its too much of a big deal to give that control away. Also we would be forced to meet the "euro convergence criteria" before adopting the euro, which includes maintaining a debt-to-GDP ratio that limits our fiscal policy (we are currently way off that figure).
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@hummusgirl: Yes, he promised it in order to win the election - which shows me just how much he really cares about the long term future of this country.
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@Cherrybee: @looch: Forbes ran a good article a couple of years ago identifying several reasons why the UK should not join/adopt the Euro:
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So the UK is leaving the EU...
Most of you who voted did not want this to happen... How are you feeling?
So what does the Queen think of it, it seems to me that she could possibly sway the vote by voicing her opinion. Or did she but that many people were against it.
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I'm honestly surprised at the news this morning that Britian is leaving. I still don't have a personal opinion on the matter, but nearly all of my British friends wanted to stay. I chatted with one British friend yesterday and she said she could see both sides so she abstained from voting. The pound has already dropped 10% as of this morning. It will be interesting to see what happens
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We're also really surprised that Britain is leaving. I'm curious when they will give the formal notification to the council.
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Oh my actual god. I cant believe this is happening. So, what do we do now?? The pound is basically worth the same as a jelly bean this morning and my children's future is screwed.
@bluestriped bee: The Queen isn't allowed to voice an opinion. We are a democracy and she is a "constitutional monarch".
Anyone fancy putting an English family up in their spare room???
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@Cherrybee: I was wondering what you were thinking! I'm really curious how this will effect immigration within the EU, in both directions. Will British expats in the EU have to apply for new immigration statuses, obtain work permits and visas and all of that jazz? Will EU citizens have to do the same to work in the UK? I currently have a 5 year visa (long story) that lets met live in work in the UK with no restrictions and it's good for another 18 months. We have no plans to move to the UK in that time, but I wonder if my visa would still be honored?
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@lamariniere: They're saying that exit negotiations will take 2yrs and we will continue to be part of the EU during that time - so come over while you can (and while the exchange rate is so favourable).
I'm really worried about my children's future. This could have serious consequences for the Irish peace process as well as the economy.
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@lamariniere: @Cherrybee: I am beyond shocked. I honestly didn't think I knew anyone who voted to leave - my Facebook had blown up in disgust this morning. But actually, my family voted to leave, which surprised so much. My in laws will have voted to stay. FIL is Spanish, I doubt he has any British documents, nor do his kids. I think we will all come to regret this.
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I'm shocked. This reminds me both of the Quebec referendum in the 90s and the hate and fear filled election season in the US.
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I can't believe they actually voted to leave. What a mess this will make of global economies.
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Annnd the PM just stepped down.
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@sunny: yes there is a lot of both of those emotions being flung around today.
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Does this mean that Scotland and Northern Ireland will eventually secede from the UK and join the EU as independent countries/member-states?
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@mrbee: That's a very, very good question. Scotland voted to remain in the UK earlier this year, but they voted to remain in the EU so there will be calls for another referendum soon. As for Northern Ireland - its scary stuff. The Republic of Ireland is part of the EU.... at the moment, I have more questions than answers.....
@travelgirl1: Christ on a bike. Will we get PM Boris?? I wish he was a cute and cuddly as he comes across....
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@Cherrybee: I'm stunned and shocked that the UK would do this!!
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@mrbee: The general public are very, very stupid. They think that we can leave the EU, close our boarders, stop letting in "immigrants" (and by that they mean Muslims) and suddenly everything will be wonderful. They don't care about the economy, they're not interested in trade, all they can see is that they are waiting for a doctors appointment and someone with darker skin was called in first......
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Wow. This was not the outcome I was expecting. I am totally shocked and just have no idea how this is going to end up
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@Cherrybee: Come to Texas! We have room for everybody. It will be great for a few months until President Trump is elected (largely for similarly racist reasons) and then we can all escape to...Canada? Thinking of you guys and hoping the fallout isn't as bad as the predictions.
So much fear. The guy who murdered Jo Cox was clearly a nut job..... its heartbreaking, she was one of the very best. 
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