Anyone else reading this? I would *love* to connect with others who are.
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I really want to but my library doesn’t have it so considering my options. What are you thoughts so far
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@gotkimchi: It's seriously life changing. I love it so much that I bought both the hard copy and audiobook. Do you have audible? If you've never used it, you can download it during the trial version for free.
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@crazydoglady: no I don’t great tip!
ETA just downloaded. Will come back when I’ve listened
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@gotkimchi: Feel free to check in with any insights/challenges etc along the way!
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I’ve never heard of this but I’m very interested reading the description! I had some “great on kindle” credit so I picked it up ... now if I can just get around to reading it!
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@crazydoglady: have you actually done this? I understand everything she’s saying and totally agree I just don’t feel like I can eat normally! I don’t feel like I have the tools yet. I’d like to get the book in print I think
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@gotkimchi: Yes! I am currently a work in progress (and am sure I will be forever), but i do feel like I am making some huge breakthroughs, but it's a lot of work to finally make peace with food/eating/body image. She will give you the tools. There are 5. She starts off with all the background and truths about dieting to gain credibility. Stick with the book! It will become clear.
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@bhbee: I definitely prefer print for the first read, but that's the way my brain works. Let me know what you think! It's definitely one of my top 5 books.
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I haven't heard of this, but after reading the back cover blurb about it, the approach sounds a lot like Geneen Roth's writing about intuitive eating. Maybe just another resource to check out if this resonates with you.
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@lady baltimore: Yes, I'm familiar with Geneen Roth! Dooner addresses many intuitive eating/mindful eating ideas as psuedo-diets. I did EI years ago (on and off)but the whole hunger scale ended up feeling diet-like and restrictive to me.
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@crazydoglady: so I’m halfway through tool 1 and so far my thoughts are I would love to get to a place where food is neutral.
One thing I’m wondering though is she poo poos paleo and eating like our ancestors but I’m wondering how this sort of relates because when she’s talking about famine and feast that sort of feels based on our ancestry as well - I might not be explaining this well but it almost feels contradictory or something
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@gotkimchi: I think the famine/feast is an indisputable fact based on the human condition. Paleo (or its variations) are based on eating like our ancestors for optimal health and weight loss. Dooner wants to equalize ALL food, so saying "gluten/dairy etc is bad" is a form of restriction which triggers binging. Of course, if you have actual allergies etc, then eat within those parameters. but not eating certain foods for weight loss makes it impossible to equalize all food. Dooner does say that she wants to feel good before while, and after eating but that's going to mean different things to different people.
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@crazydoglady: this is really hard to comprehend that everything we’ve known/been taught is wrong!! Is that true?? It would be super freeing to walk around and just think sugar is sugar not “bad”
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@gotkimchi: Right?!? So, the first time I read the book, I kept waiting for her to tell me my dieting/eating guidelines...in an anti-dieting book. That's how ingrained dieting culture is! It's so revolutionary that it has to be a process. It has to. I started reading the book at the end of April and took a little break from the book at the end of the school year. Since the main premise of the book is to eat, I thought the emotional and mental parts of the book were less important/could wait...how wrong I was. So many of my mental restrictions were keeping me stuck. I would eat what I wanted but felt guilty. I've gone through periods of "what am I doing to myself?!?!? I still want to be skinny!!!" For a long time, I STILL wanted TFID to be the answer and to make me skinny (she talks about this in the book.) And I am finding that (little by little) my priorities are shifting and these beliefs that I clutched onto are loosening.
Since starting, I have eaten gallons of ice cream. Like...that's my thing. For the longest time, I tried to trick myself out of eating desserts by eating fruit, that fake ice cream...so now I have eaten cake upon cake, brownies, etc. Then, something crazy happened: I was making our grocery list and realized I didnt get any ice cream or sweets and there is absolutely no other reason than I forgot. But I know I can have absolutely ANYTHING from the grocery store if I decide to make the 2 minute drive. The other night, I ate a second slice of pie and didnt feel guilty. Seriously. I had a stomach ache, but I didnt feel once single ounce of guilt. I still have ups and downs if I see an old skinny pic of myself or run into someone who has lost weight, but then I feel grateful to be off the merry go round because it never ever ever worked.
Definitely listen to the "In defense of carbs and sugar" chapter. She isnt saying to only eat a sugar diet but to allow complete freedom to eat these foods so you can get out of the restrictive state so you can eat a varied diet. -
Wellllllll I definitely took a "fuck it" food approach for the past 4 years of pregnancy and nursing.... I know, bad me, but I grew 2 babies and nursed one up through age 3 soooo it must not have been too bad!
Now I'm into intermittent fasting I love it. One similarity would be it's not about what you eat (IF thinks it's more about *when* you eat).
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@DesertDreams88: TFID would say that that is how it SHOULD be done. As far as IF, Dooner would probably say that it can breed restriction which leads to the binge/restrict/binge/restrict cycle, but, hey, everyone is different. Just curious, do you ever find yourself falling out of the IF lifestyle?
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@crazydoglady: @DesertDreams88: I definitely didn’t give a fuck until my youngest was 2, but I was still thinking I “shouldnt” be eating this or that or feeling bad about it or thinking I’m fat and should be eating better and this book wouldn’t go for that either. I’ve tried IF as well, but for me it definitely was a binge restrict thing and i also went on and off it
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@gotkimchi: How far are you in the book? I think this is going to be so great for you!
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@crazydoglady: I’m on emotional eating v binging. Btw I totally thought I was a food addict and a binger
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@gotkimchi: Me, too!!! It makes perfect sense because we ARE food addicts in the same way that we are oxygen addicts. The difference is, we've never denied ourselves oxygen, so we dont have a restrictive relationship with it.
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Not me but my DH is reading this and starting this venture. He is very interested in it as he is a yo yo dieter and yo yo worker outer. He's done paleo/cross fit in the past as well as many other fad diets. He is usually very successful but then when he falls off he binges like mad. He is a very emotional eater.. he eats if he's happy, he eats if he's down, he eats if he's stressed.... I am very hopeful this book/philosophy might help him to develop a healthy relationship with food and maybe curtail his all or nothing/binging cycle.
I for some crazy reason have always had a fairly healthy relationship with food and I have never dieted. I could stand to lose 15 lbs but overall I am content and happy. I enjoy food, it's delicious and I don't want to deprive myself. I do overeat sometimes but not all the time. I try to make some healthy decisions and I always try to have healthy options and snacks in the house for myself and the kids.
DH ordered the book I guess after reading the first chapter so we'll see.. here's to hoping!!!
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@Ajsmommy: you should get him on here! I would love to have an easy relationship with food and am working towards that! I still am working through the book but honestly I’m shook
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I've been following this thread a bit and read up on the book on Amazon. It allows you to read a few pages. I"m definitely intrigued. We're heading on a vacation in a few weeks where I know I'll have plenty of down time at night. I think I'll have to pick up this book! I definitely don't have a great self image and can't seem to make any "diet" stick. Life gets in the way.
And then I feel horrible about myself. Definitely need to change my mindset.
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@Ajsmommy: That's great! Just more evidence of what happens when you never diet. PLEASE never ever diet. That's what starts the whole restrict/binge cycle. I went on my first diet at 16 (weight watchers) and have been on every single diet since then. I just takes one diet.
I hope your husband gets some freedom with food. It's been life-changing and I am just at the beginning.
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@gotkimchi: Did you know that Caroline does a study? I believe it's 6 weeks and $350ish. She's nearing the end of her first one and I am going to do the next one when it is offered. Sign up for emails if you havent. She's not pushy about it, it's just for people who could use more hands on guidance after finishing the book.
And "shook" is a great way to describe it! There are so many ups and downs on this journey.
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@Mommy Finger: You will love this book!! The fact that you cant make a diet stick is just your human biology overriding your desire to lose weight. It really is a mindset shift...a big one.
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I just read the sample pages on amazon... this makes SO much sense. I used to have so much "food noise" in my 20s from years of being a figure skater. I finally got off the carousel and life has been much easier. The book sounds great, thanks for the recommendation!
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@psw27: Of course! I think everyone is who is on a true mindful eating journey can benefit from this book. Definitely check in to see how you like it!
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I read it just recently! Would love to talk more with folks about it. I didn't love the writing personally, but the concept is absolutely spot on. I have been trying really hard since about the start of the year to go off any and all food restriction behaviors, so the concepts in this book were really useful in pushing me to really let go of thoughts that lead to restriction. I do like intuitive eating because it does help me be more mindful as I eat (I'm very prone to distraction and eating too fast and ignoring my cues) and having a greater sense of focus has been really helpful.
I also really recommend The Eating Instinct by Virginia Sole-Smith. I nerd out on social science books and she really goes through ideas about how we are conditioned to eat in restrictive ways from childhood. It's really taught me a lot about how I approach my daughter's eating and how to let go of my bad behaviors toward myself and her.
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@crazydoglady: One thing to note about IE that the original authors (Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch) are very anti-diet mindset and behaviors and talk a lot on social media especially about how their work gets reinterpreted as a diet and they are vehemently against that. I don't know Geneen Roth, but Evelyn and Elyse wrote the original IE books and personally I really find them a great tool to focus on body cues that we learn to ignore over time. I don't see them as restrictive at all (and I'm majorly on the anti-restriction/non-weight-loss bandwagon right now).
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@Mrs. Carrot: Yep! I've read Intuitive Eating.
I sometimes felt like the focus on mindfulness became diet-like for me. Like dont eat emotionally etc. And that could just be me. I can see how they would be helpful for people who ignore their hunger and are out of touch with it. I remember feeling guilty if I ate in ways that didnt adhere to the 10 Principles, but, again, that could have just been my take on it.
I will have to check out The Eating Instinct. -
@Mrs. Carrot: I put the Eating Instinct in my cart to save it! I'm definitely worried about what I will pass on, especially to my daughters. Even being aware that I don't want to repeat a lot of what I was taught as a child, it's just so ingrained.
@crazydoglady: just started TFID and the ideas really resonate but it feels SO overwhelming to deal with all the baggage. Like how will I ever be normal after 30 years of diets and screwed up food relationships? I'm thinking/hoping this will feel more manageable as I get further into it . . . it is hard to imagine food ever being neutral!
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@bhbee: It just takes time, but it probably takes less time to see a difference than one thinks because this is how we are SUPPOSED to be eating. I've only been doing this since late April and I have been all over the map. I've been scared, disgusted with myself, panicked etc etc etc. But I am making strides here and there that are very encouraging. Like last night, my husband wanted to go get ice cream and I blurted out "ice cream doesnt sound good." I have NEVER EVER said that in my life. It was basically like him asking me "do you want beef stew?" I felt neutral about it and only because I seriously have allowed myself everything I have denied. Plus, I can have some later if I want. Today, I was at the grocery store and I told myself I could get one treat that was calling my name, but nothing did, so I left with just bread and milk. I am not saying this in "diet speak" whatsoever because I am not trying to lose weight any more. I am prepared to drive myself back to the store the second I want something, but. for now, I don't. This took 3 months to get to, but I feel like I am gaining momentum as I see how much better living like this is, but there will be ups and downs. You've got this and I am more than happy to be your cheerleader along the way.
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@crazydoglady: @bhbee: ok I was wondering this too and the book said it takes a long time and I was thinking YEARS but then she mentions a lot of people who have noticed things after 3 months which seems pretty reasonable
I’ve actually just started this book 4 or 5 days ago and actually just telling myself I’m allowed to eat anything in any quantity has let me feel a little more free already. Still working through the book but it’s wild
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@gotkimchi: I think the “any quantity” part is really going to mess with me. I’m excited to read more!
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I'm reading really slowly because I don't have a lot of time right now so I'm just picking it up while nursing. But some stuff is blowing my mind. On the plus side, I'm seeing that some of this work on "just eat" I've already done - which makes it feel a little more manageable - but there is still a ton left to do. I felt good today because I had the chance to get whatever I wanted out for lunch (not the norm) and I decided not to get a burger and fries because it just didn't sound good. A lot of times I would place a moral judgment on that (I'm being so good!) but instead I made myself think it through. Why didn't I want it, was I getting a moral high off it that would backfire later? But I realized the real-feel temp is 107 today and it's just too hot to eat like that! Which is a much better reason. And I told myself, I can have that burger and fries next time if I want.
I've been thinking about the paragraph about "shitty foods". This is HUGE for me. It reminded me of this friend I had growing up - we were best friends for several years and spent many days going to each other's houses after school. I was always amazed how at their house, they had a pantry door organizer that was filled with "shitty" snacks - hostess cupcakes, that sort of stuff. And they got to pick one every day after school for snack - all those sugary foods were just right there all the time. In a million years my mom would never have allowed that, or if such things were in the house they were tightly controlled, not freely available, and came with a big helping of guilt. I can't remember being allowed snacks at all, but certainly not "shitty" ones.
Well, guess what? That friend is now a healthy weight adult. And I am overweight, despite (because of!) all my mom's trying to control my food. Honestly, I did not see all the crazy things (not just lack of cupcakes) that went on until I had kids myself and had more perspective. Now a lot of what she says around my kids drives me nuts. That's a whole different topic.
But for years I've always wondered, why could that friend eat the cupcakes and have it be fine? When it's not fine for me at all. I just thought, I have crappy heredity and no willpower. So MIND BLOWN to think that difference in our size is probably somewhat heredity but also the POWER that such foods have over us. She could freely eat those so they were good but NBD; for me sugary treats were something to long for, deny myself and then feel guilt about.
Had to come write this novel because WOW. These concepts are so simple but powerful!
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@bhbee: ok this is exactly how I feel too! Like as soon as I told myself I could eat ANYTHING and start actually wondering what I want my tastes for a lot of things have changed and I’m thinking I actually wanted that stuff because it was “allowed” on whatever diet - diet soda, coffee or like your example of eating out but now that I can get whatever at any time it’s totally different. I was generally a coffee addict and now I haven’t been wanting any coffee at all. It’s so strange but I’m trying to accept what I want
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@crazydoglady: I’m just getting to the rest section in the book, but I’m curious, how has rest played into this for you? Especially given the exhausting joys of parenting.
I’ve always felt like this is a huge key for me in so many ways but I still make so many bad decisions to stay up late again - I have struggled with going to bed early enough since I was 22 and started getting up at 5:30 for work! But I know I’m so much less stressed when I’m well rested.
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@gotkimchi: Did you like the audio book? Trying to decide if I should listen to this or read it.
And then I feel horrible about myself. Definitely need to change my mindset.
I hope your husband gets some freedom with food. It's been life-changing and I am just at the beginning.
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